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    Highlanders v Hurricanes - now at 3:05pm

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    • Duluth
      Duluth last edited by Duluth

      Hurricanes with a chance to take second place (if they win & the Blues lose)

      Highlanders are playing better than the 2 wins 5 losses suggests

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Kiwiwomble
        Kiwiwomble last edited by

        No idea whats going to happen, part of me think the landers can take a lot from the saders game and have some confidence....and part of me thinks they left everything on the park and it will be hard to regroup

        Canes4life Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Canes4life
          Canes4life @Kiwiwomble last edited by

          @Kiwiwomble let's just hope we get another top-notch NZ derby to finish off a superb tournament. You might be right though, Landers put everything into yesterday's match but I'm sure they will be keen to finish the season off on a high under the roof.

          Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • Kiwiwomble
            Kiwiwomble @Canes4life last edited by Kiwiwomble

            @Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard

            edit: actually, thinking it through a bit i think the day games have helped, bigger crowds etc have helped the atmosphere

            Snowy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • Snowy
              Snowy @Kiwiwomble last edited by

              @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

              @Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard

              Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.

              Machpants 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • Machpants
                Machpants @Snowy last edited by

                @Snowy said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                @Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard

                Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.

                That’s not waht the coaches and players are saying. They’ve pretty mch all called for more byes, because you can’t afford to rest your best and they’re all getting smashed.

                Stargazer Snowy 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • Kiwiwomble
                  Kiwiwomble last edited by

                  i think id rather see more subs than more byes, know its not the same as a week off but might help

                  Machpants 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Stargazer
                    Stargazer @Machpants last edited by

                    @Machpants Yeah, I read in an article that Mo'unga said that if there were to be another SRA next year, then they'd need to add another (3rd) bye if they wanted the comp to have semi-finals and a final. He said that the games had test match intensity and it was taking a toll on the players' bodies.

                    You only have to look at the squads and it's easy to see that there are a huge number of injuries and, especially, serious injuries.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Snowy
                      Snowy @Machpants last edited by

                      @Machpants said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                      @Snowy said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                      @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                      @Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard

                      Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.

                      That’s not waht the coaches and players are saying. They’ve pretty mch all called for more byes, because you can’t afford to rest your best and they’re all getting smashed.

                      No problem with that, another bye wouldn't hurt.

                      My point was that I want to see the best players, which is why the comp has been so good.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • Machpants
                        Machpants @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                        @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                        i think id rather see more subs than more byes, know its not the same as a week off but might help

                        God no moew subs, we need less and less bulk

                        Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Kiwiwomble
                          Kiwiwomble @Machpants last edited by

                          @Machpants i wouldn't make the squads bigger, we've had several guys not make an appearance this year

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Bones
                            Bones @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                            @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                            No idea whats going to happen, part of me think the landers can take a lot from the saders game and have some confidence....and part of me thinks they left everything on the park and it will be hard to regroup

                            To me it felt a bit of a "coming of age" game. Something to set the bar and build on, the players know what can be achieved now and know not to Parete.

                            Can't be many players we're losing?

                            Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Kiwiwomble
                              Kiwiwomble @Bones last edited by Kiwiwomble

                              @Bones i actually dont know, backline wise a lot of those are pretty new guys so hoping we can build

                              hunt, collins, nareki, koroi, Punivai, NMS, Garden-Bachop, Fainga'anuku et al were all new signing this year...

                              Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • Bones
                                Bones @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                                @Kiwiwomble it's imperative we keep Hunt, McKay and NMS.

                                Oh and Fakatava because every Hawkes player sitting on his arse watching adds to the forum fun.

                                Would be good to make a play for Trask though as we could do better than Joane.

                                Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                • Kiwiwomble
                                  Kiwiwomble @Bones last edited by

                                  @Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term

                                  Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland

                                  Nepia 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Siam
                                    Siam last edited by

                                    Such were my low expectations and the player drain being so severe, I've been pleasantly surprised by the clan this year. Loved how they made do with what they had and the speed it up tactics against the saders was a fair crack nige.

                                    Locks and loosies punched above their weight and special mentions to Whetton and Parkinson.

                                    A definite pass mark this season.

                                    Speaking of passes, I think young Ioane is going to have quite a highlights reel of his cut outs over the next few years.

                                    We'd have been fucked without Nugget though...

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • Nepia
                                      Nepia @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                                      @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                      @Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term

                                      Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland

                                      Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄

                                      Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • Bones
                                        Bones @Nepia last edited by

                                        @Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                        @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                        @Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term

                                        Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland

                                        Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄

                                        Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.

                                        Nepia 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • Nepia
                                          Nepia @Bones last edited by

                                          @Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                          @Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                          @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                          @Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term

                                          Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland

                                          Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄

                                          Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.

                                          Oh my bad, I Ferned it completely.

                                          Also what’s Booboo smoking?

                                          Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Bones
                                            Bones @Nepia last edited by

                                            @Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                            @Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                            @Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                            @Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                            @Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term

                                            Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland

                                            Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄

                                            Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.

                                            Oh my bad, I Ferned it completely.

                                            Also what’s Booboo smoking?

                                            Same thing @reprobate is I think!

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • Bovidae
                                              Bovidae last edited by

                                              More work experience for Pickerill. 🤣

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • booboo
                                                booboo last edited by

                                                Ok I'll admit it.

                                                Ioane is a dead set long term All Black. Everyone thinks so.

                                                Has to be selected.

                                                I do not think he is at all just a capable Super Rugby player.

                                                And I do not include him in a category like Brendon Leonard or Eliot Dixon.

                                                More like all those Safer 10s whose names I can't remember.

                                                ...

                                                More seriously he just hasn't moved me to thinking he's All Black material. Last year he was the 3rd best 10 playing. Which he was, and the 3WM decided a second choice 9 who hardly ever played the position was a better option when Ioane was the only option last year.

                                                Thus year he's Behind me Black for me.

                                                And in the slightly longer term I see more upside in Trask than I do in Ioane.

                                                But I'm smoking shit.

                                                (I also thought Larkham wouldn't amount to much ... so what do I know.)

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                • sparky
                                                  sparky last edited by

                                                  Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                  antipodean Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                  • antipodean
                                                    antipodean @sparky last edited by

                                                    @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                    Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                    He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                    Bones sparky Nepia 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Bones
                                                      Bones @sparky last edited by

                                                      @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                      Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                      I would say those aspects would put him ahead of Barrett.

                                                      sparky 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • Bones
                                                        Bones @antipodean last edited by

                                                        @antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                        @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                        Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                        He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                        Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?

                                                        Stargazer 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • sparky
                                                          sparky @antipodean last edited by sparky

                                                          @antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                          @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                          Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                          He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                          Bit harsh on Mo'unga who makes most tackles, but there is an issue about NZ 10s and wings that their defence is weak in comparison with their 6 Nations peers.

                                                          Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                          • Bones
                                                            Bones @sparky last edited by

                                                            @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                            Mo'unga who makes most tackles

                                                            Again, not something I've noticed. Frizzel especially loves picking him out.

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • sparky
                                                              sparky @Bones last edited by

                                                              @Bones Beauden Barrett was a crosskicking maestro for the Canes.

                                                              Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • Bones
                                                                Bones @sparky last edited by

                                                                @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                was

                                                                Yes.

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • Nepia
                                                                  Nepia @antipodean last edited by

                                                                  @antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                  @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                  Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                                  He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                                  I think that's the rule isn't it? BB used to take lessons from Mehrts, then he actually realised he was a decent size and then improved in that area.

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • Bovidae
                                                                    Bovidae last edited by

                                                                    Mehrts used to avoid tackles while the current 1st 5s resemble doormats.

                                                                    antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • antipodean
                                                                      antipodean @Bovidae last edited by

                                                                      @Bovidae said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                      Mehrts used to avoid tackles while the current 1st 5s resemble doormats.

                                                                      I didn't say Mehrts was a good coach.

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • Daffy Jaffy
                                                                        Daffy Jaffy last edited by

                                                                        Highlanders v Hurricanes: Saturday 15 August, 7:05pm, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

                                                                        Referee: Brendon Pickerill

                                                                        Assistant Referee 1: Mike Fraser

                                                                        Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman

                                                                        TMO: Chris Hart

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • Stargazer
                                                                          Stargazer @Bones last edited by Stargazer

                                                                          @Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                          @antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                          @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                          Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                                          He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                                          Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?

                                                                          Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):

                                                                          Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at:
                                                                          Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22
                                                                          Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10
                                                                          Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23
                                                                          M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15
                                                                          J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22
                                                                          B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10
                                                                          Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22
                                                                          J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15
                                                                          McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15
                                                                          gt12 antipodean 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                          • gt12
                                                                            gt12 @Stargazer last edited by

                                                                            @Stargazer

                                                                            Nice post.

                                                                            Jordan has done a better job on defense than it sometimes looks.

                                                                            One thing he really needs to work on are turnovers. From my reading of the same stats, he conceded 12 turnovers!

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                            • antipodean
                                                                              antipodean @Stargazer last edited by

                                                                              @Stargazer said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                              @Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                              @antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                              @sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:

                                                                              Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.

                                                                              He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.

                                                                              Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?

                                                                              Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):

                                                                              Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at:
                                                                              Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22
                                                                              Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10
                                                                              Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23
                                                                              M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15
                                                                              J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22
                                                                              B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10
                                                                              Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22
                                                                              J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15
                                                                              McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15

                                                                              I'd be wary of quoting statistics without context (and we all know the Professor's thought about them).

                                                                              Stargazer 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • mariner4life
                                                                                mariner4life last edited by

                                                                                tackling stats are meaningless when it comes to effective defense.

                                                                                taniwharugby 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                • Stargazer
                                                                                  Stargazer @antipodean last edited by Stargazer

                                                                                  @antipodean Yeah, I agree with that, but these stats show that people making general claims about some players being bad tacklers are just plain wrong.

                                                                                  By the way, using stats - to make general claims - to talk up players should be treated with the same amount of reservation as using stats to say that certain players are not good/not good enough/average/bad.

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                  • taniwharugby
                                                                                    taniwharugby @mariner4life last edited by taniwharugby

                                                                                    when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.

                                                                                    Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?

                                                                                    mariner4life Kiwiwomble 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
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