Highlanders v Hurricanes - now at 3:05pm
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Hurricanes with a chance to take second place (if they win & the Blues lose)
Highlanders are playing better than the 2 wins 5 losses suggests
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No idea whats going to happen, part of me think the landers can take a lot from the saders game and have some confidence....and part of me thinks they left everything on the park and it will be hard to regroup
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@Kiwiwomble let's just hope we get another top-notch NZ derby to finish off a superb tournament. You might be right though, Landers put everything into yesterday's match but I'm sure they will be keen to finish the season off on a high under the roof.
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@Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard
edit: actually, thinking it through a bit i think the day games have helped, bigger crowds etc have helped the atmosphere
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard
Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.
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@Snowy said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard
Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.
That’s not waht the coaches and players are saying. They’ve pretty mch all called for more byes, because you can’t afford to rest your best and they’re all getting smashed.
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i think id rather see more subs than more byes, know its not the same as a week off but might help
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@Machpants Yeah, I read in an article that Mo'unga said that if there were to be another SRA next year, then they'd need to add another (3rd) bye if they wanted the comp to have semi-finals and a final. He said that the games had test match intensity and it was taking a toll on the players' bodies.
You only have to look at the squads and it's easy to see that there are a huge number of injuries and, especially, serious injuries.
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@Machpants said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Snowy said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life 100% there have been some awesome matches in this comp, personally i feel theyve been better on average than the normal/previous derby games, maybe the shorter season has just given them more incentive to go hard
Yeah and fewer games has meant that some of the dross has been removed and the quality has shone through. No need to rest or rotate so much with this comp.
That’s not waht the coaches and players are saying. They’ve pretty mch all called for more byes, because you can’t afford to rest your best and they’re all getting smashed.
No problem with that, another bye wouldn't hurt.
My point was that I want to see the best players, which is why the comp has been so good.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
i think id rather see more subs than more byes, know its not the same as a week off but might help
God no moew subs, we need less and less bulk
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@Machpants i wouldn't make the squads bigger, we've had several guys not make an appearance this year
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
No idea whats going to happen, part of me think the landers can take a lot from the saders game and have some confidence....and part of me thinks they left everything on the park and it will be hard to regroup
To me it felt a bit of a "coming of age" game. Something to set the bar and build on, the players know what can be achieved now and know not to Parete.
Can't be many players we're losing?
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@Bones i actually dont know, backline wise a lot of those are pretty new guys so hoping we can build
hunt, collins, nareki, koroi, Punivai, NMS, Garden-Bachop, Fainga'anuku et al were all new signing this year...
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@Kiwiwomble it's imperative we keep Hunt, McKay and NMS.
Oh and Fakatava because every Hawkes player sitting on his arse watching adds to the forum fun.
Would be good to make a play for Trask though as we could do better than Joane.
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@Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term
Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland
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Such were my low expectations and the player drain being so severe, I've been pleasantly surprised by the clan this year. Loved how they made do with what they had and the speed it up tactics against the saders was a fair crack nige.
Locks and loosies punched above their weight and special mentions to Whetton and Parkinson.
A definite pass mark this season.
Speaking of passes, I think young Ioane is going to have quite a highlights reel of his cut outs over the next few years.
We'd have been fucked without Nugget though...
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term
Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland
Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄
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@Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term
Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland
Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄
Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.
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@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term
Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland
Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄
Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.
Oh my bad, I Ferned it completely.
Also what’s Booboo smoking?
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@Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Nepia said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones i liked Fakatava when we got to see him last week, fast, hope we're tapping him up long term
Ioane is overrated, lucky we have gatland
Are you serious? Ioane is way better than Gatland. He needs to change his name to Josh Johns so that the he doesn’t get muddled up with the Ioane brothers in the minds of their detractors. 😄
Joane is fine. And we're just having a dig at @booboo who has Trask ahead of him.
Oh my bad, I Ferned it completely.
Also what’s Booboo smoking?
Same thing @reprobate is I think!
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More work experience for Pickerill.
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Ok I'll admit it.
Ioane is a dead set long term All Black. Everyone thinks so.
Has to be selected.
I do not think he is at all just a capable Super Rugby player.
And I do not include him in a category like Brendon Leonard or Eliot Dixon.
More like all those Safer 10s whose names I can't remember.
...
More seriously he just hasn't moved me to thinking he's All Black material. Last year he was the 3rd best 10 playing. Which he was, and the 3WM decided a second choice 9 who hardly ever played the position was a better option when Ioane was the only option last year.
Thus year he's Behind me Black for me.
And in the slightly longer term I see more upside in Trask than I do in Ioane.
But I'm smoking shit.
(I also thought Larkham wouldn't amount to much ... so what do I know.)
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Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
I would say those aspects would put him ahead of Barrett.
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@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
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@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Bit harsh on Mo'unga who makes most tackles, but there is an issue about NZ 10s and wings that their defence is weak in comparison with their 6 Nations peers.
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@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Mo'unga who makes most tackles
Again, not something I've noticed. Frizzel especially loves picking him out.
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@Bones Beauden Barrett was a crosskicking maestro for the Canes.
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@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
I think that's the rule isn't it? BB used to take lessons from Mehrts, then he actually realised he was a decent size and then improved in that area.
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Mehrts used to avoid tackles while the current 1st 5s resemble doormats.
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@Bovidae said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Mehrts used to avoid tackles while the current 1st 5s resemble doormats.
I didn't say Mehrts was a good coach.
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Highlanders v Hurricanes: Saturday 15 August, 7:05pm, Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Referee: Brendon Pickerill
Assistant Referee 1: Mike Fraser
Assistant Referee 2: James Doleman
TMO: Chris Hart
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@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 -
Nice post.
Jordan has done a better job on defense than it sometimes looks.
One thing he really needs to work on are turnovers. From my reading of the same stats, he conceded 12 turnovers!
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@Stargazer said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@antipodean said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
@sparky said in Highlanders v Hurricanes:
Josh Ioane's passing and kicking make him the 3rd best AB 10 IMHO.
He and Mounga have been taking defence lessons from Mehrtens.
Hadn't noticed that about him - is he high up in the missed stats then?
Mo'unga being a bad tackler is a myth; and he's not playing behind a Rolls Roys pack anymore, either. Here are some stats (based on ESPN stats):
Tackles made Missed tackles Tackle success rate x rounds of SRA starting at: Black 22 3 88% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 22 Mo'unga 48 9 84.2% 7 games starting at 10 Jordan 15 3 83.3% 5 games starting at 15, 1 at 14 and 1 at 23 M Hunt 35 10 77.8% 5 games starting at 10, 2 at 15 J Ioane 10 3 76.9% 2 games starting at 10, 1 at 22 B Barrett 24 9 72.7% 5 games starting at 15, 2 at 10 Cruden 38 15 71.7% 4 games starting at 10, 3 at 22 J Barrett 12 6 66.7% 5 games starting at 15 McKenzie 20 11 64.5% 8 games starting at 15 I'd be wary of quoting statistics without context (and we all know the Professor's thought about them).
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tackling stats are meaningless when it comes to effective defense.
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@antipodean Yeah, I agree with that, but these stats show that people making general claims about some players being bad tacklers are just plain wrong.
By the way, using stats - to make general claims - to talk up players should be treated with the same amount of reservation as using stats to say that certain players are not good/not good enough/average/bad.
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when watching a game, a poor read on defence, and not close enough to attempt a tackle doesnt get counted as a miss.
Also do they count tackle assists or when more than 1 person was part of a tackle?
