Players to build the team around?
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@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
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Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
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@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
yep, wasn't his fault he had to keep playing, there was nothing behind him
i have huge respect for Gregan.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@KiwiMurph said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
i would go a step further and say i have seen very few who were better for ANYONE
Rugby Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Fixtures, Results, Tables
ESPN Scrum.com brings you all the latest rugby news and scores from the Rugby World Cup, all 2015 Internationals, Aviva Premiership, European Rugby Champions Cup, RFU Championship, Super Rugby, Six Nations and Top 14.
Interesting- Gregan at the top; Genia next. Both outstanding halfbacks.
Hard to compare, though, because of the differnet styles. Arguably Smith enables the AB style - his passing shifts the point of attack so far from the ruck it opens up space. You see it for the Highlanders - so hard to play against.
Aren't those stats just sorted by test matches played?
Yep, as good a place to start as anywhere when discussing the GOAT in a position. Being awesome for part of a game, a game, or even a season or two isn't as influential as dominating a position for a decade or more (McCaw - looking at you).
That's true. On the flipside though dominating selection for a long period of time in your own test team doesn't automatically translate to being world class over that period of time.
Massive fan of Gregan and he was a dominant player but the cupboard beyond him had moths in it. Whitaker probably had 1-2 seasons where he was okay but Henjak and others were simply provincial level.
Gregan was class, I think you Aussies have always underrated him a bit.
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Even when Gregan had the big steps backwards which frustrated many of the Aussie faithful, the upside of his leadership and experience outweighed the benefits of the other options.
Some argue that was to the detriment of the team, but this was one of the factors in his longevity.
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I think that if you're looking at people who are in the conversation for being one of the five greatest ABs of the past 50 years, then probably Retallick is the only one we have at present and he probably only gets a mention.
But, if you're talking about people who are World Class to the extent of being potential winners of a World Player of the Year award - then we obviously have Beauden, then Aaron Smith, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Richie Moúnga and doubtless several others.
Big problem is that many of our best guys are approaching the end of the road or are at the very start of it.
I think the guys in the middle tier are not carrying the load they should. They're either out of form, being mis-selected or doing foolish things that are costing us dearly.
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@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
five greatest ABs of the past 50 years
good thread idea, get it set up.
Of course mine will be the last 33-odd years because i don't remember a single player before the 87 World Cup
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@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
five greatest ABs of the past 50 years
good thread idea, get it set up.
Of course mine will be the last 33-odd years because i don't remember a single player before the 87 World Cup
Jones, Jonah, Cully, McCaw, Carter.
Discussion over.
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@MN5 said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
five greatest ABs of the past 50 years
good thread idea, get it set up.
Of course mine will be the last 33-odd years because i don't remember a single player before the 87 World Cup
Jones, Jonah, Cully, McCaw, Carter.
Discussion over.
only two from the 90s, I'm impressed.
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@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@MN5 said in Players to build the team around?:
@mariner4life said in Players to build the team around?:
@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
five greatest ABs of the past 50 years
good thread idea, get it set up.
Of course mine will be the last 33-odd years because i don't remember a single player before the 87 World Cup
Jones, Jonah, Cully, McCaw, Carter.
Discussion over.
only two from the 90s, I'm impressed.
I've spanned 28 years and like most of my posts on here I spent very little time overthinking about what I was writing.
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@nzzp A Smith is the best halfback in the world and has been for a while. He has the perfect game. He's fast to the ruck, has the sharpest pass, kicks well and supports attacking play brilliantly. How often do you see him finishing off a try following a break?
He's your only player currently playing at a world class level IMO (in the sense that he would make a XV of the worlds best in his position). Id take him over any of Faf, White, Youngs, etc in a heartbeat.
Dunno about comparing him with Gregan. They feel like different eras to me. He's definitely better than Genia was, except for maybe 2011 vintage Genia.
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@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
I think that if you're looking at people who are in the conversation for being one of the five greatest ABs of the past 50 years, then probably Retallick is the only one we have at present and he probably only gets a mention.
But, if you're talking about people who are World Class to the extent of being potential winners of a World Player of the Year award - then we obviously have Beauden, then Aaron Smith, Sam Whitelock, Sam Cane, Richie Moúnga and doubtless several others.
Big problem is that many of our best guys are approaching the end of the road or are at the very start of it.
I think the guys in the middle tier are not carrying the load they should. They're either out of form, being mis-selected or doing foolish things that are costing us dearly.
I remember after the dust had settled following the 2011 RWC and McCaw had played his 100th test, there was a bit of noise around - how many more tests? Will he be there in 4 years?
It’s crazy to think that we got another 45 tests from McCaw after that 2011 win over France. Was he hanging on? Did Hansen overplay him? Was he past it? There’s some pretty memorable games from 2012-15 without even mentioning the semi against the Boks when I thought he really lifted after Kaino’s YC.
Could Aaron Smith be that guy that keeps on keeping on where his influence and high level of play is still doing the business beyond what we the fans think
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@nzzp It's actually a question I've been wondering about, because I've been wondering whether Mo'unga has quietly become the best first five in the world.
Some would have Beauden ahead of him.
Farrell is a better kicker, but probably not a better player.
Ford?
Sexton is probably cooked.
There's no compelling choice for me.
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@Chris-B said in Players to build the team around?:
@nzzp It's actually a question I've been wondering about, because I've been wondering whether Mo'unga has quietly become the best first five in the world.
Some would have Beauden ahead of him.
Farrell is a better kicker, but probably not a better player.
Ford?
Sexton is probably cooked.
There's no compelling choice for me.
The landscape is pretty bare of quality 10s right now
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