British Politics
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@PecoTrain said in British Politics:
As for the resignations, Sir Philip Rutnam gets his day in court regardless of this report
I hope all the multi-billion £ fuck-ups he was responsible for get well and truly aired in public.
Rutman's statement on report's findings: 'Enormous efforts were made from top to bottom in the Home Office to support the new Home Secretary and respond to her direction, and significant achievements have resulted.'
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@PecoTrain said in British Politics:
As for the resignations, Sir Philip Rutnam gets his day in court regardless of this report
I hope all the multi-billion £ fuck-ups he was responsible for get well and truly aired in public.
Rutman's statement on report's findings: 'Enormous efforts were made from top to bottom in the Home Office to support the new Home Secretary and respond to her direction, and significant achievements have resulted.'
Just not in any measurable form...
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Text from a mate who loves to wind me up ...
"Your buddy Owen Jones is using the US Capitol break-in to play the victim again ...."
Sure enough,
LOOK AT ME!
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He really is an unspeakably whiny little prick.
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
He really is an unspeakably whiny little prick.
You are what you eat?
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
He really is an unspeakably whiny little prick.
You are what you eat?
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
You’re on a roll tonight. Pure gold!
I particularly like the time that Corbyn’s lesson has.
He knows how to pad things out!
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Text from a mate who loves to wind me up ...
"Your buddy Owen Jones is using the US Capitol break-in to play the victim again ...."
Sure enough,
Weird how something of significance happens on the other side of Atlantic and Owen Jones (and a few others) think it's all about them.
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So it seems Education secretary Gavin Williamson went on GMB this morning and got his arse completely handed to him. Couple of points of view here.
I've given a fair bit of leeway to many a minister during the last year, but undoubtedly GW has been completely out of his depth. It's one thing to u-turn on a lockdown due to a changing situation, but better foresight could have been handled for education where lives are not at stake. Out of his depth, incompetent must go.
SEcond point is I see quite a few Labour MP's jumping on the bandwagon. Question to Labour - where the fuck have you been? Why are you jumping on loudmouth journalists to make your point instead of making your own fucking point?
Make not mistake, the real issue is with Gavin. But if Labour were doing their job properly, he'd have been toast ages ago.
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@MajorRage Your last is a good point. We need a strong opposition (whoever they are) to keep the Government more accountable. Weak opposition allows too many excesses.
See Thatcher.
See Blair. -
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
@MajorRage Your last is a good point. We need a strong opposition (whoever they are) to keep the Government more accountable. Weak opposition allows too many excesses.
See Thatcher.
See Blair.Labour won’t be strong til they completely purge the internal opposition. See corbyn, long Bailey etc
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@MajorRage I agree. I see parallels with the early to mid 80's with Michael Foot and the Militant Tendency. Serial losers (usually by a large margin) until they got a strong leader in John Smith and eventually got rid of the loony left. This left the door open for Thatcher to push through a lot of stuff that might not (and in some cases should not) have seen the light of day with a strong opposition.
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
We need a strong opposition (whoever they are) to keep the Government more accountable
There's a sizable section of Labour MPs more interested in banging on about BLM, identity politics and virtue-signally rather that do their job.
You end up with fuckwits like Dawn Foster accusing Priti Patel of not knowing what racism is and getting rightly schooled in return. (I'm no fan of Patel, but her response was absolutely bang-on).
As as for Captain Hindsight...tells the government keep the schools open in the morning and when they announce they are going to close, asks why they weren't closed earlier. I have some sympathy with the bloke inheriting Corbyn's mess, but he really isn't helping himself.
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Spot on. He's not really having to make the tough decisions that Hancock has to make against a constantly shifting situation. He's had reasonable time to sort things out but buggers it up.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
@MajorRage Your last is a good point. We need a strong opposition (whoever they are) to keep the Government more accountable. Weak opposition allows too many excesses.
See Thatcher.
See Blair.Labour won’t be strong til they completely purge the internal opposition. See corbyn, long Bailey etc
Starmer is NOT the answer.
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@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
Starmer is NOT the answer.
To what question? Is there anyone better to lead Labor?
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@rotated said in British Politics:
s there anyone better to lead Labor?
In hindsight, probably not.
(I'll get my coat)
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@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Catogrande said in British Politics:
@MajorRage Your last is a good point. We need a strong opposition (whoever they are) to keep the Government more accountable. Weak opposition allows too many excesses.
See Thatcher.
See Blair.Labour won’t be strong til they completely purge the internal opposition. See corbyn, long Bailey etc
Starmer is NOT the answer.
He’s not even the question IMO. Only thing going for him is he’s not Corbyn.
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@Bones said in British Politics:
@Daffy-Jaffy said in British Politics:
Yeah...ahhh... about that.
It’s fair enough. We are the 51st state after all.
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
He’s not even the question IMO. Only thing going for him is he’s not Corbyn.
Started off well then faded badly - swings with the wind and flip-flops everywhere. Have nagging doubts about his ability to make a decision and stick to it. BoJo's Captain Hindsight jibe has a lot of truth in it
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
That is pretty much all you can ask for. A lot of the media love to underestimate Boris but the guy is special and with those kinds of characters all you can really do is wait for them to run out of steam or blow up.
Like you say he seems best placed to put some space between Corbyn and the future and might even an unforced error or two out of Boris. The ability to dress himself is an obvious plus.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
Perhaps he'll sort out his party and provide the space for some decent leader to emerge. If so, that's not a bad legacy IMHO.
That is pretty much all you can ask for. A lot of the media love to underestimate Boris but the guy is special and with those kinds of characters all you can really do is wait for them to run out of steam or blow up.
Like you say he seems best placed to put some space between Corbyn and the future and might even an unforced error or two out of Boris. The ability to dress himself is an obvious plus.
He's a good speaker too. Although not the most authoritative voice, but is very clear and easy to understand. When Boris had to give bad news press conferences and was trying to give our positivity and energy, a much more clear firm staunch delivery would have been better.
I actually think He needs to split his party to try and get the UK into a better situation. There are parallels with the US in the distance between right and left, and therefore the hostility between the two.camps is marked. I know I bang on and on about this, but ultimately it all comes down to, that's right, Twitter. People take their position then read / follow/ learn more and more about their position and do nothing other than trash the opposite. It's just not healthy at all.
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Boris tried to do something similar on election day end of 2019. clearly reaching out to the other side first and foremost offering an olive branch. However, the pandemic has kind of killed that for him. Biden sort of did the same ... but then made it unequivocal for men to say "I'm a bird" and be able to compete in womans sports; a very very far left position.
As others have alluded to, I'm not entirely sure Starmer gets this. His tactic at the moment seems to be sit there, lets the Tories implode and say "I told you so". Not sure that is a good approach myself, although it is one Boris & co are allowing him to do at the moment.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
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@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
I thought this was UK Politics?
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
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@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
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@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
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@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
Surely you mean "we have to talk, we have to talk, we..."?
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@Catogrande said in British Politics:
@pakman said in British Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in British Politics:
@MiketheSnow said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@rotated said in British Politics:
@MajorRage said in British Politics:
Blair was hated for his ability to relate to the right / conservatives but ultimately thats what won elections, It also made for a much more harmonious UK with the exception of the far left who (and they still bang on about this ad bloody nauseum)thought Blair was a traitor to the Labour party etc.
Even if Stamer had all the talents of Blair, how many people are really up for grabs at the moment? After four elections, two referendums (and another one in the offing) in the past decade the electorate has to be totally fatigued with no space for a groundswell behind anyone or anything.
I can see why you would think that but I also think you are flat out wrong. There is a huge space available for a true centrist party at the moment.
They'd have my vote.
Especially if they led with
'The Government is here to help you, but you have to help yourself'
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. " Ronald Raegan
Up there with, 'We have to talk'?!
Surely you mean "we have to talk, we have to talk, we..."?
Going to use that on your 'educational' video?
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@pakman Spread the love, spread the knowledge...
... not to mention the chlamydia.
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Reagan's line is up there with "tax and spend" as some of the most damaging rhetoric by a politician in the last 40 years.
Both of those lines taken at face value suggest that anarchy is the best government, which is absolute nonsense. Communism is also nonsense, as is unfettered capitalism, but politics and government is ideally about finding the balance between the extremes, not destroying government or individual capability.
The UK already has a centrist party formed from a split of the UK Labour Party, being the Liberal Democrats.
The Labour Party doesn't need to schism again - if there are centrists who don't like where it's going, they should go and join the Lib Dems. FPP makes it politically moronic to split parties, and even Corbyn, primary representative of the left wing of the Labour Party, understands that, which is why he didn't depart and take half the party membership with him.
Without a change in the electoral system to some sort of proportional representation, Labour and the Tories are stuck with managing wings of the parties, as anything else leads to the other side winning easily. The hard part is convincing internal wings/factions to get along for the sake of getting anything done, because while disunity is punished at the ballot box, that's easily forgotten in the heat of the moment.
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@Godder all very true mate.
I would classify myself as Centre right, but the lib dems are a complete clusterfuck so are unvotable.
But for me, Labour simply remain unvotable as well as they have too many influential hard left. I honestly think they care more about virtue signaling bullshit. The hardest done people in this country are the constantly trod upon deprived white youth, mainly up north.
And Labour do nothing for them.
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@MajorRage said in British Politics:
@Godder all very true mate.
I would classify myself as Centre right, but the lib dems are a complete clusterfuck so are unvotable.
But for me, Labour simply remain unvotable as well as they have too many influential hard left. I honestly think they care more about virtue signaling bullshit. The hardest done people in this country are the constantly trod upon deprived white youth, mainly up north.
And Labour do nothing for them.
See Brexit
