The Crusaders and their success
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i think its got a bit of the Americas Cup about it, the Saders have so many facets to their success now i think we'll need them to make a mistake to really be able to catch up
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I think the early Crusaders success was built on their advantage of being a one team super franchise that sucked up players due to this as @nzzp notes.
However, I think that advantage has largely gone now (witness players like DMac and ALB leaving the region) and the current success is mostly down to the coaching staff. Robertson has done what Rennie did in that he's elevated the performances of players who aren't superstars.
To @mariner4life's question about replication, we know it's not fully the "culture" B/S, there are too many Crusader style coaches out there that have been abysmal failures, in fact Rangi and Razor are the two that seem to be the exception. You need the class players to build that "culture" around.
I also think that the way Super rugby goes in NZ there's always one shit team (currently Chiefs, has been Highlanders/Blues, previously Chiefs etc), two good teams, and two better than the rest - the Crusaders are always in that top two while the other spot changes around - and you have to give them credit for that. I still hate them like they're a red headed step son though.
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@dogmeat they still weren't bottom of the pack though...just joined the rest of us
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@kiwiwomble coz they only failed in one area. All the other Kiwi franchises usually aspire to only fail in one area....
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There has always been overlap between Crusaders coaches.
It's essentially one system that has been alterered/improved over time.
Set up by Wayne Smith, taken over by Robbie Deans (who was assistant under Wayne Smith), taken over by Todd Blackadder (who played under both), taken over by Razor (who played under the first 2 and alongside Toddy).
Ditto for the assistant coaches (too many to name).
Of course even with a system you have a range of coaches - Blackadder is not at the same level of the other three coaches (though still made 2 finals and almost won both) and Razor is a serious step up from Toddy by being arguably the most impressive Super coach of all time.
You saw a mini version of this sort of overlap with the Brumbies - Rod Macqueen set up the system (final 97) and Eddie Jones (01 Super title) and Nucifora (04 Super title) carried this on but that was different as it was essentially the same era of players the whole time (Gregan, Larkham, Roff etc) and there was that whole falling out with Nucifora.
Of course the Crusaders is bigger than just coaching - it's a whole system - whoever is coach knows the type of game they want to play and recruits accordingly. All the players learn the system and they all fit in seamlessly.
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I think we have been lucky in our coaching talent good timing we had Wayne Smith and Robbie Deans who was a staunch believer and enforcer of what the Crusaders were born from.
Now Razor is able to motivate players year after year to keep wanting to add the Crusader legacy.
That fall off during Todd Blackadder reign was due to the players lacking motivation.
There are a lot of smart things the Crusaders ethos is built on which Razor keeps adding too.
Rangi has brought some of it to the Blues and wrapped it within the Culture that suits them.
Blues are doing a hell of a lot of things right now.They will win a few titles over the next few years and we will see a massive new rivalry between these 2 teams.
As a Crusaders fan that prospect really excites me going forward.
A lack of depth is a problem for the other 3 teams as we have dropped off in producing players in certain positions. -
i know Blackadder isn;t the same level as the others...but i did feel a bit sorry for him, got to the final in that 2011 season, after the earthquakes and basically having the whole season away from home, i now he was given a good run after that and all but we'd have a bronze statue for a coach that got us to two finals
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@toddy said in The Crusaders and their success:
They've been lucky enough to have some absolute gun 1st 5's through their times as champions (Mehrts, Carter and now Mo'unga). You still need a good team to win a title but a world class 1st five is probably your first wish as a coach.
There's a bit in that. As a country we don't produce too many really good ones, and thr other sides have lost theirs early every bloody time. Right back to Nick Evans.
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they also seems to keep hold of players and those players have long careers
they have 17 players with over 100 caps, we only have 7, blues have 6, couldn't see the others easily
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@kiwiwomble said in The Crusaders and their success:
they also seems to keep hold of players and those players have long careers
they have 17 players with over 100 caps, we only have 7, blues have 6, couldn't see the others easily
The only way you can do that is to produce core AB players because they make enough to stick around
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@mariner4life and how do you make AB's other than the odd freak of tallent, have a champion team, success beget success
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@mariner4life said in The Crusaders and their success:
@toddy said in The Crusaders and their success:
They've been lucky enough to have some absolute gun 1st 5's through their times as champions (Mehrts, Carter and now Mo'unga). You still need a good team to win a title but a world class 1st five is probably your first wish as a coach.
There's a bit in that. As a country we don't produce too many really good ones, and thr other sides have lost theirs early every bloody time. Right back to Nick Evans.
Crusaders have earned the time to develop them, too. Carter started at 12. Mo'unga served an apprenticeship.
others at other franchisees (Nick Evans) got asked to rescue a failing franchise, and just got thrown in the deep end
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@nzzp Evans also wanted to play 10 at all costs, even if it meant trying to overtake DC, where we were most in need was at 15, i honestly think if he'd concentrated at 15 and covered 10 he could have had a long career in NZ
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@kiwiwomble said in The Crusaders and their success:
@nzzp Evans also wanted to play 10 at all costs, even if it meant trying to overtake DC, where we were most in need was at 15, i honestly think if he'd concentrated at 15 and covered 10 he could have had a long career in NZ
ha ha, Blues wound up playing him at 15.
/shakes head
We had no clue. Tried Toeava at 10, everyone got a go. You don't get quality 10s by chopping and changing.
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@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
ha ha, Blues wound up playing him at 15.
I don't have a problem with that. Evans wasn't playing well for the Blues but Nacewa was. The problem was that both decided to leave leave NZ rugby at the same time.
That left the Blues with players like Lachie Munro who wasn't good enough for SR -
@toddy said in The Crusaders and their success:
They've been lucky enough to have some absolute gun 1st 5's through their times as champions (Mehrts, Carter and now Mo'unga). You still need a good team to win a title but a world class 1st five is probably your first wish as a coach.
they still showed ability and discernment to pick and refine these gun 10s (looks sideways at Blues)..
