@nevorian Just a natural phenomenon I think. Officials are human and whoever is at the top gets a negative narrative and the officials, as much as they try, have to be influenced by it all. The ABs in Europe during the end of year tours were subject to extra scrutiny especially around foul play where local players could get away with things the ABs couldn't.
The alternative is losing and the scrutiny (and whinging) transfers to the team that is winning.

@derpus It doesn't need to be - it just needs a better balance restored, where the spectators aren't being punished for player misdeeds - and sometimes just perceived misdeeds.

@nepia said in SRA Round 9: Crusaders v Blues:

@stargazer said in SRA Round 9: Crusaders v Blues:

@kiwimurph Or some people are just oversensitive when someone says something remotely critical of Akira (I guess that goes hand in hand with hyping up a player over the years 🎣 ). I've seen plenty of people commenting on Sotutu, Clarke and Rieko being lacklustre this season, and being outplayed in this game.

I don't think people care when Akira gets shit when he's playing average, but as this thread clearly shows no matter how well he plays posters will say he's playing shit or he's always shit.

The 2018 season clearly shows us this. He was class all that year yet we have have posters on here that are claiming otherwise.

Mate ,I didn't think he played that well in 2018, but I quite happy to say that is just my opinion, and some like different things in a 6 than me. I like them to have fairly good all round game. Doesn't mean I'm right though, just what I think.

Cameron Millar kicks it! Highlanders win!

Full time: Crusaders 23 - 25 Highlanders

There was really nothing between these teams. If you haven't watched it, try to catch a replay if there is one. Great game, with some great quality rugby!

@bovidae Cook Savage a Northland Boy from Kaitaia ,also Corey Evans from the Blues another Kaitaia lad .

@old-samurai-jack said in SRA round 8: Chiefs v Crusaders:

The way both teams dealt with the breakdown seemed completely different. The Crusaders were happy to concede a lot and fan across in defense. The Chiefs put numbers in there and there were numerous hands competing for the ball. I wonder if the Chiefs would have been penalized more with a different ref.

Maybe initially - but you always push the boundaries and see where the line is.

Problem is when the line changes mid-game 😁

Clip with all the highlights, not just those of the Blues:

That team was meant to have a player from each NPC province, and I think there is apart from Manawatu. Sweeney had a long career after this. 😉

@pakman said in Crusaders v Highlanders (2 April 2021):

@frank said in Crusaders v Highlanders (2 April 2021):

@pakman said in Crusaders v Highlanders (2 April 2021):

Couple of things I’ve not seen mentioned.

Highlander runners seemed for at least first 60 to back off/slow a tad/change line at last moment going into contact. Result was a bit like when a scrum fakes at hit. Oppo overbalanced and contact ineffective. Whatever it was it really threw Saders momentum at breakdown.

Clan seemed to target running one out and then angling back in behind ruck. Seemed that analysis may have identified space there, and good yards made.

Seemed also to result in Saders not getting the rub of the red and black, as per usual.

If I were Super coaches I’d be pouring over tape!

A bit of actual rugby analysis rather than endless moaning about the refereeing. Awesome stuff!!

Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

We don't like change.

@cgrant said in Blues v Crusaders:

Ofa cost the game against the Aussies a few months ago. His bad habits are a problem, but the ABs have only two THPs of international calibre so he should keep on be selected again and again. Lomax is not yet ready, Angus T and Fidow cannot scrum while Jager is irish and Moli always injured (and seen as a LHP). It's urgent to give Newell and T. Williams some game time.

Careful, that is going to upset Canes4Life.

@higgins said in The Crusaders and their success:

@chris-b Holy crap 55 contracted players. Were they running a contracted womans and development team as well?

Not sure quite how it was all supposed to work - but, there definitely wasn't a women's team.

My memory is that they retained a Nelson Griffins and a Marlborough Red Devils team and presumably the guys in those were on semi-pro contracts. But, I'm guessing really.

A guy who was big in one of the Nelson clubs told me he'd been talking to a very fringe player who told him how much his contract was and that there were plenty of others like him. I can't remember the figure he mentioned - but, both of were, "Why the hell would they pay him that!"

They definitely got the financial model badly wrong back then, but I think learned some very good lessons. 🙂

One thing that hasn't been mentioned ( I think) is how brutal Christie's defense is. Wow! He hurt himself though.

@nepia I've actually thought of a potentially logical reason for the change.

When they converted from yards to metres they presumably changed the distance to the front of the lineout from 5 yards to 5 metres.

Which would have required the thrower to chuck it an extra .468 of a yard - which is probably about the size of a hooker's foot + the width of the touch line.

@pakman watching the nations cup on the prime app on a few telly's, it was crap.

@act-crusader said in Game of three halves - Blues/Crusaders/Chiefs - 20/02, 12pm:

Agree. Nock has huge upside I reckon but will need time.

is looking like his time is now, was starting to look good last Super season, until he was dropped, presumably for a off-field incident (breach of team rules form what I heard) but was superb for Northland.

Am thinking Christie will get first chances though, but we know how attritional things are, so he will get his shot.

@Kiwiwomble said in Crusaders vs Highlanders pre-season:

this seems to be working currently, don't know if it will stay up

Awesome Cheers for that @Kiwiwomble

According to Phil Gifford, Scott Robertson is the best coach in professional rugby history:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/phil-gifford-scott-robertson-is-the-best-coach-in-professional-rugby-history/JMFHMOOOEJXDELQE3VSQAA3424/

Good idea

@Nepia said in Crusaders v Highlanders:

But, I don't think anyone has ever said that the Hammetteur might not be a good assistant forward coach, but .

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest they might have. 🙂

@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

@kiwiinmelb said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

One point from my perspective.

Mounga and Jordan the most dangerous players on the park, looking like top level players.

While our starting all black wingers just look average.

And for all our talk of midfield depth, the guys most likely to start the first test aren't showing much.

Okay 2 points.

I would actually consider Jordan to play right wing

Agree, a back three of Rieko, Jordie and Jordan is looking our best bet at this stage (IMO)

Be interesting to see if his mentioned defence deficiencies can be ironed out in the ABs.

@junior said in Crusaders v Blues:

@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Nevorian said in Crusaders v Blues:

@junior said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

I would have thought the best way to do this is actually to ensure that the coaching at all franchises is strong. Despite their poor recent form, one would think having Gats coaching the Chiefs would make that a desirable destination (perhaps he needs to improve his assistants). Similarly, it seems Rangi is leading a strong coaching unit at the Blues and I’m sure the way they’ve played this year will make players consider moving there.

The Crusaders would be lucky to have more than four or five of the best players in NZ at the moment - Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Jordan with Moody debatable

spot on - which makes their comeback on Saturday night even more remarkable

The issue is not the spread of the best players, contrary to what @Winger says. The issues is rather than evenness of the remaining talent. The difference between the 'Saders' best and worst players, IMO, is significantly less than that at other franchises. This means that they have less glaring weaknesses across the park and, crucially, on their bench. This is to my mind a large part of why they so often pull away from their opposition in the last 20 mins of matches. Similarly, it's what made the ABs so lethal between say 2010 and 2016 and it's where we've been caught up by our major opposition since that time.

You are probably onto something there , they have the best worst players , most teams have a few stars , but its the bottom half of your talent that makes the difference at this level

@Darren said in Highlanders v Crusaders:

Smith was amazing, if he is not the highest paid AB then he should renegotiate.

Now is really not the time to re negotiate your contact lol

@sparky said in Crusaders v Chiefs:

@cgrant said in Crusaders v Chiefs:

Ah Kuoi was the best lock on the paddock. His workrate is impressive and he is quite dynamic in the loose. Not a bad LO jumper either.

Disagree, Sam Whitelock and Mitch Brown both made twice the number of tackles as him and hit more rucks. Not a vintage performance from Sam Whitelock, but he was still the best lock on the paddock in that game.

He was the only lock. The rest were trainees

I moved the AB blindside discussion to this thread:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3998/ab-depth-chart-2020/165

@antipodean Yes it isn't rocket science. The rules are in place whether people like it or not and people still try and argue against them with the usual 'the game has gone soft, back in my day' talk.

A really good effort by the Reds, who have to be the best 1-5 team I've ever seen. They should have won though.

Their average age is 21 and it showed. They just needed a few cool heads to direct traffic in the Crusaders 22, too often they went the wrong way or let the attack stagnate and the D-line get set.

The goalkicking was abysmal and genuinely affected the game. I've never seen a pro kicker shank as many as Jock Campbell.

Harry Wilson and Lukhan S-Loto were two real standouts, as was Hunter Paisami. Really nice to see the next generation coming through. Combine these Reds youngsters with guys like Harrison and Bell at the Tahs, Lolesio and Valetini at the Brumbies and you've got a few potential Test stars running around.

@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Highlanders (round 4):

@nzzp Nothing wrong with two koru.

Anyway, I'm not going to have this conversation again with you lot.

I knew someone who's name was Christopher P Bacon.

Chris P Bacon.

His parents could blame people for laughing at it, but at the end of the day it's on them.

@Bones that chiefs game was heavily influenced by all black substitutions though. Two different sides in each half for each team.

Edit; literally a game of two halves. Goddamnit, I finally did it; used a cliche in a genuine and appropriate sense

@ACT-Crusader Mounga would've made a big difference on Saturday.

@cgrant said in Crusaders v Waratahs (Round 1):

Has Havili ever played at 1st Five ? He could be a good back up to Mo'unga in case of emergency. The Crusaders could play Jordan or Bridge at fullback if he has to move there.

I did not expect my question to be so quickly answered by the Crusaders staff ... (see the lineup against the Chiefs).

@jegga said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

iet , was it something I said?

You;re fine

I've just finished replying to all the fan mail I received 🤟 🤟

All in the name of openness and transparency

@canefan said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@Rapido said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@pakman said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@taniwharugby said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@WillieTheWaiter it is ridiculous that a prop hooker or anyone other than the guy with 9 on his back are fair game in that situation

At the risk of raking over old coals, isn't it the case that the Laws don't make distinction? I realise that there is an official interpretation which stipulates that the ball is out when halfback picks it.

In the modern real world of refereeing.

If you bump the arm of a halfback about to spin it wide and cause him to drop the ball you could get carded, if you bumped the arm of a prop in the same position but about to pick and go - you would get chess pumps from your teammates for forcing a turnover.

Ruby laws should be interpreted and applied that encourage forwards to congregate at a breakdown (IMO);

The defending team to attempt to win possession and if not then disrupt clean possession. The attacking team forwards should need to congregate to ensure possession is maintained and is then clean.

At no point should one of the above actions, performed legally (or even just slightly mis-timed) risk incurring a card because refs don't understand the essence of rugby.

In other words

Capture.JPG

It ain't tiddlywinks mate!!!

Rather it ain't League mate !!!!

What next, illegal strips, and sit in protests blocking Queens Street for a week?

@Yeetyaah said in QF1: Crusaders v Highlanders:

Bloody Landers. Was backing them for the slim chance of a Chiefs home final. First half was great from both teams. Squire ruined the chances. Dunno what was up with Franklin swearing at the ref either. Crusaders too good. Rebuilding time for the Landers. Thanks for the memories Bender.

@Jaguares4real See how I've written slim chance? I'm backing my boys but I know it's going to be a hard slog.

@Crucial said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Chester-Draws said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

That is an example when advantage should be over in my book. Rebels might have gone 80m if that pass had stuck. They had a clear advantage.

Instead we go back for a scrum 10 metres back from where the lineout would have been. Especially since it was only a scrum advantage. PK advantage would be different.

And again. Scrum advantage should be over once a team gets clean ball and are free to use it as they wish.

Except that's not what the rules say.

And I prefer referees who play to the actual rules, not dodgy commentators on chat groups.

Oh yeah. What does the law say? Enlighten me.

Fudge it. Can't resist:

Law 7(1):

Advantage:
a. May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
b. May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
c. May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
d. Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.

I think that d. is the bit that annoys most viewers. This is exactly the previously described scenario where a player in the clear is passed to but drops the ball. Laws say that opportunity is not sufficient but to the viewer it looks like the team has already experienced an advantage to the point where they could have done well.

The other annoying one doesn't happen that often but can be awful. That is when a team is on attack in the 'red zone' and they keep making small inroads breaking down the defence. It can go on for ever giving them every chance to score a try before a handling error dictates going back.

There is a school of thought that if a team gets a PK advantage in the opposing teams 22m line, then the referee should never call 'advantage over'. Either the attacking team scores a try, or the attacking team comes back for a PK. I don't know if I quite subscribe to it, but I can see the logic for a PK advantage.

@shark

It's not hard to understand, it's merely wrong.

Each of Havili'i, Bridge, Reece and Ennor are in possible AB contention. They would not care less about the guys behind them, because the guys behind are far worse than they are. They will play every game as well as they can, because they are looking at higher honours, not over their shoulders.

Meanwhile other teams have their best players not being fielded. That's a far worse situation that worrying that some of your also-rans can't make the team.

I would love it if the Chiefs could field Damien McKenzie, at the cost of not being able to field Etene Nanai-Seturo.

I think that another fast outside would be useful, but also having a halfback who makes a big effort there would be good. It’s an important part of TJ, Weber, and Smith’s games.

@nzzp said in Stormers v Crusaders:

@Billy-Webb said in Stormers v Crusaders:

Given where the pass took place, the ball clearly traveled forward a good few yards so one can understand the inclination to want to call it as forward.
But one would expect a TMO to know the laws of the game well enough to know that it is actually about whether the ball leaves the passing player "backwards out of the hand". So yes, disappointing and frustrating that Jonkers got it wrong.

Mate, if a TMO doesn't know basic laws, how the hell do the provide advice to the onfield ref? It's just bizarre. Wayne Barnes got this one wrong at Eden park a while ago too.

Wait for a terrible call like this to influence a game at the RWC and see what happens. The standard of refs is poor at the moment, and the laws don't help them.

Yup. That's what I am saying nzzp 😉

And you can bet the farm there will be at least one of these in the RWC. You just have to hope that it isn't against the team you're supporting.