Referee: Ben O’Keeffe
Assistant 1: Mike Fraser
Assistant 2: James Doleman
TMO: Brendon Pickerill

They should have swapped O'Keeffe and Williams, who's officiating the other game. Or give the whistle to Fraser or Doleman.

@pakman watching the nations cup on the prime app on a few telly's, it was crap.

@act-crusader said in Game of three halves - Blues/Crusaders/Chiefs - 20/02, 12pm:

Agree. Nock has huge upside I reckon but will need time.

is looking like his time is now, was starting to look good last Super season, until he was dropped, presumably for a off-field incident (breach of team rules form what I heard) but was superb for Northland.

Am thinking Christie will get first chances though, but we know how attritional things are, so he will get his shot.

@Kiwiwomble said in Crusaders vs Highlanders pre-season:

this seems to be working currently, don't know if it will stay up

Awesome Cheers for that @Kiwiwomble

Hopefully the Ennor situation is a plan for the worst and hope for the best scenario and we see him back sooner.

Good idea

@Nepia said in Crusaders v Highlanders:

But, I don't think anyone has ever said that the Hammetteur might not be a good assistant forward coach, but .

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest they might have. 🙂

@No-Quarter said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

@kiwiinmelb said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

@mariner4life said in Chiefs v Crusaders:

One point from my perspective.

Mounga and Jordan the most dangerous players on the park, looking like top level players.

While our starting all black wingers just look average.

And for all our talk of midfield depth, the guys most likely to start the first test aren't showing much.

Okay 2 points.

I would actually consider Jordan to play right wing

Agree, a back three of Rieko, Jordie and Jordan is looking our best bet at this stage (IMO)

Be interesting to see if his mentioned defence deficiencies can be ironed out in the ABs.

@junior said in Crusaders v Blues:

@nzzp said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Nevorian said in Crusaders v Blues:

@junior said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@booboo said in Crusaders v Blues:

@Winger said in Crusaders v Blues:

@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Blues:

Beauden was rubbish. One of the worst games i've ever seen him play. He gave away 2 soft penalties - he kicked out on the full - he put in a shit kick before halftime. He was pants. He also looks like he has seriously lost his pace.

He was brilliant about 4-5 years back and before then. But hes been going slowly downhill since. But still good but not great.

I hoped the Blues coaches would get him moving back towards great again. But so far hes moving in the opposite direction. Maybe his time is up. Or the Blues move was a big mistake. Or hes not really a FB.

I'm bored with the Crusaders winning year after year so disappointed with this result. The only team that might have challenged is so far behind now the title is decided after 4 games

So the other teams have got to get better

It can't be done if most of the best players sign for the best team (as their AB chances are much better). And the next level down quality players bugger of overseas.

NZR need to come up with a (financial) system were the best players are evenly shared out (at present it almost ensures the opposite). Otherwise a new competition will slowly die. Or will never achieve the following it could have if one team wins ever year. This includes Aust (or SA if still included although this model has done its time). Aust can only support 3 teams at most. So 5 EVEN NZ teams and three QUALITY Aussie teams = success. But NZ need to be ruthless (ignore reasons why it can be done. For example Abs might need to move teams as Barrett did) to ensure an even distribution of players. This new competition must be seen as very important rather than just the ABs. And super rugby almost as an irrelevant feeder for the ABs (the current set up).

I would have thought the best way to do this is actually to ensure that the coaching at all franchises is strong. Despite their poor recent form, one would think having Gats coaching the Chiefs would make that a desirable destination (perhaps he needs to improve his assistants). Similarly, it seems Rangi is leading a strong coaching unit at the Blues and I’m sure the way they’ve played this year will make players consider moving there.

The Crusaders would be lucky to have more than four or five of the best players in NZ at the moment - Taylor, Whitelock, Mo'unga, Goodhue, Jordan with Moody debatable

spot on - which makes their comeback on Saturday night even more remarkable

The issue is not the spread of the best players, contrary to what @Winger says. The issues is rather than evenness of the remaining talent. The difference between the 'Saders' best and worst players, IMO, is significantly less than that at other franchises. This means that they have less glaring weaknesses across the park and, crucially, on their bench. This is to my mind a large part of why they so often pull away from their opposition in the last 20 mins of matches. Similarly, it's what made the ABs so lethal between say 2010 and 2016 and it's where we've been caught up by our major opposition since that time.

You are probably onto something there , they have the best worst players , most teams have a few stars , but its the bottom half of your talent that makes the difference at this level

@Darren said in Highlanders v Crusaders:

Smith was amazing, if he is not the highest paid AB then he should renegotiate.

Now is really not the time to re negotiate your contact lol

@sparky said in Crusaders v Chiefs:

@cgrant said in Crusaders v Chiefs:

Ah Kuoi was the best lock on the paddock. His workrate is impressive and he is quite dynamic in the loose. Not a bad LO jumper either.

Disagree, Sam Whitelock and Mitch Brown both made twice the number of tackles as him and hit more rucks. Not a vintage performance from Sam Whitelock, but he was still the best lock on the paddock in that game.

He was the only lock. The rest were trainees

I moved the AB blindside discussion to this thread:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3998/ab-depth-chart-2020/165

@antipodean Yes it isn't rocket science. The rules are in place whether people like it or not and people still try and argue against them with the usual 'the game has gone soft, back in my day' talk.

A really good effort by the Reds, who have to be the best 1-5 team I've ever seen. They should have won though.

Their average age is 21 and it showed. They just needed a few cool heads to direct traffic in the Crusaders 22, too often they went the wrong way or let the attack stagnate and the D-line get set.

The goalkicking was abysmal and genuinely affected the game. I've never seen a pro kicker shank as many as Jock Campbell.

Harry Wilson and Lukhan S-Loto were two real standouts, as was Hunter Paisami. Really nice to see the next generation coming through. Combine these Reds youngsters with guys like Harrison and Bell at the Tahs, Lolesio and Valetini at the Brumbies and you've got a few potential Test stars running around.

@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Highlanders (round 4):

@nzzp Nothing wrong with two koru.

Anyway, I'm not going to have this conversation again with you lot.

I knew someone who's name was Christopher P Bacon.

Chris P Bacon.

His parents could blame people for laughing at it, but at the end of the day it's on them.

@Bones that chiefs game was heavily influenced by all black substitutions though. Two different sides in each half for each team.

Edit; literally a game of two halves. Goddamnit, I finally did it; used a cliche in a genuine and appropriate sense

@ACT-Crusader Mounga would've made a big difference on Saturday.

@cgrant said in Crusaders v Waratahs (Round 1):

Has Havili ever played at 1st Five ? He could be a good back up to Mo'unga in case of emergency. The Crusaders could play Jordan or Bridge at fullback if he has to move there.

I did not expect my question to be so quickly answered by the Crusaders staff ... (see the lineup against the Chiefs).

@jegga said in SR Final: Crusaders v Jaguares:

iet , was it something I said?

You;re fine

I've just finished replying to all the fan mail I received 🤟 🤟

All in the name of openness and transparency

@canefan said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@Rapido said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@pakman said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@taniwharugby said in Semi Final 1: Crusaders vs Hurricanes:

@WillieTheWaiter it is ridiculous that a prop hooker or anyone other than the guy with 9 on his back are fair game in that situation

At the risk of raking over old coals, isn't it the case that the Laws don't make distinction? I realise that there is an official interpretation which stipulates that the ball is out when halfback picks it.

In the modern real world of refereeing.

If you bump the arm of a halfback about to spin it wide and cause him to drop the ball you could get carded, if you bumped the arm of a prop in the same position but about to pick and go - you would get chess pumps from your teammates for forcing a turnover.

Ruby laws should be interpreted and applied that encourage forwards to congregate at a breakdown (IMO);

The defending team to attempt to win possession and if not then disrupt clean possession. The attacking team forwards should need to congregate to ensure possession is maintained and is then clean.

At no point should one of the above actions, performed legally (or even just slightly mis-timed) risk incurring a card because refs don't understand the essence of rugby.

In other words

Capture.JPG

It ain't tiddlywinks mate!!!

Rather it ain't League mate !!!!

What next, illegal strips, and sit in protests blocking Queens Street for a week?

@Yeetyaah said in QF1: Crusaders v Highlanders:

Bloody Landers. Was backing them for the slim chance of a Chiefs home final. First half was great from both teams. Squire ruined the chances. Dunno what was up with Franklin swearing at the ref either. Crusaders too good. Rebuilding time for the Landers. Thanks for the memories Bender.

@Jaguares4real See how I've written slim chance? I'm backing my boys but I know it's going to be a hard slog.

@Crucial said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Chester-Draws said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

@Damo said in Crusaders v Rebels:

That is an example when advantage should be over in my book. Rebels might have gone 80m if that pass had stuck. They had a clear advantage.

Instead we go back for a scrum 10 metres back from where the lineout would have been. Especially since it was only a scrum advantage. PK advantage would be different.

And again. Scrum advantage should be over once a team gets clean ball and are free to use it as they wish.

Except that's not what the rules say.

And I prefer referees who play to the actual rules, not dodgy commentators on chat groups.

Oh yeah. What does the law say? Enlighten me.

Fudge it. Can't resist:

Law 7(1):

Advantage:
a. May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
b. May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
c. May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
d. Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.

I think that d. is the bit that annoys most viewers. This is exactly the previously described scenario where a player in the clear is passed to but drops the ball. Laws say that opportunity is not sufficient but to the viewer it looks like the team has already experienced an advantage to the point where they could have done well.

The other annoying one doesn't happen that often but can be awful. That is when a team is on attack in the 'red zone' and they keep making small inroads breaking down the defence. It can go on for ever giving them every chance to score a try before a handling error dictates going back.

There is a school of thought that if a team gets a PK advantage in the opposing teams 22m line, then the referee should never call 'advantage over'. Either the attacking team scores a try, or the attacking team comes back for a PK. I don't know if I quite subscribe to it, but I can see the logic for a PK advantage.

@shark

It's not hard to understand, it's merely wrong.

Each of Havili'i, Bridge, Reece and Ennor are in possible AB contention. They would not care less about the guys behind them, because the guys behind are far worse than they are. They will play every game as well as they can, because they are looking at higher honours, not over their shoulders.

Meanwhile other teams have their best players not being fielded. That's a far worse situation that worrying that some of your also-rans can't make the team.

I would love it if the Chiefs could field Damien McKenzie, at the cost of not being able to field Etene Nanai-Seturo.

I think that another fast outside would be useful, but also having a halfback who makes a big effort there would be good. It’s an important part of TJ, Weber, and Smith’s games.

@nzzp said in Stormers v Crusaders:

@Billy-Webb said in Stormers v Crusaders:

Given where the pass took place, the ball clearly traveled forward a good few yards so one can understand the inclination to want to call it as forward.
But one would expect a TMO to know the laws of the game well enough to know that it is actually about whether the ball leaves the passing player "backwards out of the hand". So yes, disappointing and frustrating that Jonkers got it wrong.

Mate, if a TMO doesn't know basic laws, how the hell do the provide advice to the onfield ref? It's just bizarre. Wayne Barnes got this one wrong at Eden park a while ago too.

Wait for a terrible call like this to influence a game at the RWC and see what happens. The standard of refs is poor at the moment, and the laws don't help them.

Yup. That's what I am saying nzzp 😉

And you can bet the farm there will be at least one of these in the RWC. You just have to hope that it isn't against the team you're supporting.

@shark said in Bulls v Crusaders:

@Machpants said in Bulls v Crusaders:

@shark yeah don't need him and Franks broken. Not with a lot of the ABs backups looking average.

Mo'unga tho, man as long as him and Beaudy stay fit, paired with Smith and TJ - that's a good axis. Read coming back, Ardie a better explosive option off attacking scrums, bender in 15 & Taylor still great at hooker. Spine is looking fine

Spine? Aaargh. Can you not?? 😝

Come on shark, the Warriors had a win on the weekend, league references are ok - until next week when we revert

@Chris-B said in Crusaders vs Sharks:

I have a sneaking thought in the back of my mind that we should perhaps be pretty desperate to win this Cup, because who knows whether we'll have teams capable of winning in the future. If you use Nonu as being the yardstick of a "Golden Generation", this is the last hurrah. But, more particularly, four more years of Whitelock and Retallick looks some distance off and I don't see many obvious replacements coming through - other than size-wise Triple-P.

Yeah - but if you threw Piutau and Luatua into this team, they'd probably go to that next level. We have thrown up the talent, we just struggle to keep it.

@Nepia Well there's a challenge maybe he might become a superstar 😀 or stay shit☹

Okeefe HaHaha

@sparky Yeah Jordan reminds me a little of how good Bridge was last season. Don't think Bridge has been quite as good in 2019 for whatever reason (play not going his way perhaps) - butJordam has been impressive , I like his attitude - we are lucky to have both.

@taniwharugby said in Hurricanes vs Crusaders:

@Stargazer maybe Jordie took the last piece of pavlova when they were last home?

Brilliant eh, Jordie looked pissed like Scott really sticks it to him after a win.

I left the Chiefs alone but had the Blues winning and thought that was the strangle leg!!

@Chris said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

@Kirwan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

So what ended up being decided? Keeping the name, losing the sword?

At the moment sword and knight gone from the Logo for 2020 name stays for next season but under review for 2021

Ahh, the weasly chicken shit way of changing the name.

I need to qualify what I meant by my comment about NPC form meaning nothing. It can certainly play you into a Super Rugby squad, but doesn’t neccessarily mean you can translate that form into SR, and some find that step up much harder than expected. It’s relatively easy to dominate at the lower level but then the next step is becoming harder by the year as our depth is eroded. Problem being, how often in the NPC is a freshie coming up against an established Super Rugby player, or veteran, in ten rounds?

@Bones said in Reds v Crusaders:

@booboo I'd say yes he is and I wouldn't be surprised if that changes pronunciation.

The vowels sounds would likely stay the same but the emphasis on the vowels would change. In Maori we adopted an 'english' pronunciation where we put emphasis on the first vowel, while the PI's still put emphasis on the second (according to my linguist mate).

We'd put emphasis on the Petaia whereas the PI's put emphasis on the Petaia.

@Stargazer Looking forward to seeing him sign with Toulon and 3 games in the owner saying this isnt the Dagg I saw in the 2011 RWC highlights I watched....