Poll All Black Captain
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can a mod merge this with the other thread so we can have an actual Poll?
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Vote your All Black Captain: First, Second and third picks:
- S Whitelock
- A Savea.
- C Taylor
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@The-Docter Taylor???
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@FakatavaAllBlack Thats a hook to get people thinking. Hard to think of another option.
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@FakatavaAllBlack are there any other realistic options at present?
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Edit first post for poll.
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@The-Docter I don't know Jesus! 😭would guess Sam Whitelock
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@FakatavaAllBlack I think that's it at present. If you drop Cane, it is either Wihtelock or Savea. Otherwise we go for a Taine Randall selection.
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@The-Docter I'm too young to really remember Taine Randell, although I do know he's an Otago & Landers legend so if I ever met him I would shout that man a drink🍻
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@FakatavaAllBlack point being he was made Captain before his time and never had the full support of the elder statesmen of the dressing room. Very good player though.
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@antipodean added poll. the third option gets tough. Taylor was my clown option.
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To be captain, you need to be a starter and not in danger of being dropped in the next 12 months.
As of last test: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 need not apply. The only guy who should be a nailed-on starter in the forwards is the hooker they dropped for the deciding test FFS.
I can't see Aaron Smith or Will Jordan getting dropped, but neither appeal as captains.
Whitelock is the only real interim solution, but you then get into trouble if he ends up being 3rd choice behind Retallick and Barrett. -
@reprobate this is the problem. No clear standouts beyond Whitelock. Future Captains no obvious potentials at this stage.
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in Vote All Black Captain:
@The-Docter I'm too young to really remember Taine Randell, although I do know he's an Otago & Landers legend so if I ever met him I would shout that man a drink🍻
Taine Randall - a fine No 8 who could play at 7 and 6. He was strong and able and fierce with a good future ahead of him and your selectors fixed that - it was a time of great change in your senior personnel, so they appointed a young bloke who had just arrived as captain and left him to work it out for himself ... at 21 or 22! It was one of the most myopic decisions I can recall from the wise men of rugby, shameful really, and Randell was the only one who paid a price.
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@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD well said
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LOL, we've got a live one here.
Or maybe a troll ...
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@Tim Nah, fair enough opinion. Getting off topic, but he was a good player who was made captain too young.
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Paps
Wales did it with Warburton
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@MiketheSnow McCaw is the only young captain I can think of who reached the highest echelon. Even then, he needed to fail to succeed. Rare exception though.
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1 S Cane
2 S Whitelock
3 D Papalii -
@The-Docter said in Vote All Black Captain:
@MiketheSnow McCaw is the only young captain I can think of who reached the highest echelon. Even then, he needed to fail to succeed. Rare exception though.
NZ one I think you meant to write
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1.Whitelock
2.Savea
3.Taylor -
Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
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Savea for mine. Has to be someone that deserves his place and Ardie does all day long.
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@gt12 said in Vote All Black Captain:
@MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:
Paps
Wales did it with Warburton
After the world cup
NZ are ahead of the curve most of the time
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@MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:
@gt12 said in Vote All Black Captain:
@MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:
Paps
Wales did it with Warburton
After the world cup
NZ are ahead of the curve most of the time
Whitelock until then, or Cane.
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"atlternative"
I don't think this person is a real doctor...
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Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie. -
@Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:
Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie.Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.
And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.
Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.
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cane
whitelock
smith
barrett b
barrett s
retalicksavea
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@Frye said in Vote All Black Captain:
@Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:
Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
It will be Ardie.Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.
And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.
Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.
My concern, possibly unfounded is that Whitelock is one injury away from retirement. Age and recovery time don't go well together. All I mean is that the risk is higher.
The players will probably tell you otherwise regarding whether they listen to Ardie (or find him painful - weird comment). He is hugely respected among the players.
As for being coherent? I truly do not know what on earth you mean here. Have you ever had a chat to the man? No more or less coherent than anyone else you would meet.
My guess is that many players that know the guy would hold your post up as an example of the public not having a clue but having plenty of opinions. -
- Paps
- Ardie Savea
- Aaron Smith
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@Crucial respecting someone's abilities on the pitch is a world away from respecting what someone thinks or says. We've all encountered many guys like this I'm sure (for those of us that have played).
Whitelock will make the world cup, and has a couple of big performances left in him. Just as he did in the Super final. He's been extremely durable up to this point so doesn't really make sense to not bet on him now.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Vote All Black Captain:
Savea or Scott Barrett
Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.
Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.
the greatest lineout forward of all time has a few more credits in the bank than old scottie though aye?
look, i sorta get what you are saying, but the simple fact is this is 2022, and we are playing red card lottery every game. Scott Barrett had two instances in the first test of the series where he knew, as soon as he did it, that he had fucked up, because i saw him instinctively look at an official (in that way you can't help but spin your head if you edge one). now, he didn't fuck up, because nothing came from either of them. But he skates a fine line.
He probably is nailed on to start you are right, because the selectors have a hard-on for him. But you are going to take a risk
Two additional points
Is he smart enough to do a good job (i don't know anything about him aside from onfield)
I have seen the making of some talented but wayward players is giving them responsibility. -
@sparky said in Vote All Black Captain:
- Paps
- Ardie Savea
- Aaron Smith
yeah, i'd go with smith, still one of if not the first name on the sheet, captioned them before and captained the highlanders for years
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This thread started off an absolute mess. I would be interested in an actual poll though - maybe one of the mods could fix it up? With options:
Cane
Whitelock
Savea
S Barrett
Papalii
Smith
B Barrett
Retallick
Other -
@mariner4life Scott Barrett has captained the Crusaders for the last 2-3 years, with David Havili and Codie Taylor as his deputies. He's done countless post-match interviews and pressers. He's smart enough and experienced enough. My only issue with him as a captain is his tackle technique. It's why I'd go for Whitelock until the end of the RWC.
I've doubts about Ardie as captain because of his decision-making last year and also his lack of leadership in some of the Hurricanes' games, most notably the QF against the Brumbies.
Also, I don't think halfbacks and first fives generally make good captains. They already have alot on their plate as game drivers; let them focus on that. You saw how that went terribly wrong for BB in the SRP final.
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Is Rieko in the leadership group?
I don’t see it yet, but he is one of the very few players who command a spot and will be there for a while.
Future Tana-style captain?
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@mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.
On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.
He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.
