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    Poll All Black Captain

    Sports Talk
    allblacks
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    • Kiwiwomble
      Kiwiwomble last edited by Duluth

      can a mod merge this with the other thread so we can have an actual Poll?

      antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • T
        The Docter last edited by The Docter

        Vote your All Black Captain: First, Second and third picks:

        1. S Whitelock
        2. A Savea.
        3. C Taylor
        FakatavaAllBlack F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • FakatavaAllBlack
          FakatavaAllBlack @The Docter last edited by

          @The-Docter Taylor???

          T 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • T
            The Docter @FakatavaAllBlack last edited by

            @FakatavaAllBlack Thats a hook to get people thinking. Hard to think of another option.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • T
              The Docter @FakatavaAllBlack last edited by

              @FakatavaAllBlack are there any other realistic options at present?

              FakatavaAllBlack 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • antipodean
                antipodean last edited by

                Edit first post for poll.

                T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • FakatavaAllBlack
                  FakatavaAllBlack @The Docter last edited by

                  @The-Docter I don't know Jesus! 😭would guess Sam Whitelock

                  T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • T
                    The Docter @FakatavaAllBlack last edited by

                    @FakatavaAllBlack I think that's it at present. If you drop Cane, it is either Wihtelock or Savea. Otherwise we go for a Taine Randall selection.

                    FakatavaAllBlack 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • FakatavaAllBlack
                      FakatavaAllBlack @The Docter last edited by

                      @The-Docter I'm too young to really remember Taine Randell, although I do know he's an Otago & Landers legend so if I ever met him I would shout that man a drink🍻

                      T Mick Gold Coast QLD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • T
                        The Docter @FakatavaAllBlack last edited by

                        @FakatavaAllBlack point being he was made Captain before his time and never had the full support of the elder statesmen of the dressing room. Very good player though.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • T
                          The Docter @antipodean last edited by

                          @antipodean added poll. the third option gets tough. Taylor was my clown option.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • R
                            reprobate last edited by

                            To be captain, you need to be a starter and not in danger of being dropped in the next 12 months.
                            As of last test: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 need not apply. The only guy who should be a nailed-on starter in the forwards is the hooker they dropped for the deciding test FFS.
                            I can't see Aaron Smith or Will Jordan getting dropped, but neither appeal as captains.
                            Whitelock is the only real interim solution, but you then get into trouble if he ends up being 3rd choice behind Retallick and Barrett.

                            T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • T
                              The Docter @reprobate last edited by

                              @reprobate this is the problem. No clear standouts beyond Whitelock. Future Captains no obvious potentials at this stage.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Mick Gold Coast QLD
                                Mick Gold Coast QLD @FakatavaAllBlack last edited by

                                @FakatavaAllBlack said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                @The-Docter I'm too young to really remember Taine Randell, although I do know he's an Otago & Landers legend so if I ever met him I would shout that man a drink🍻

                                Taine Randall - a fine No 8 who could play at 7 and 6. He was strong and able and fierce with a good future ahead of him and your selectors fixed that - it was a time of great change in your senior personnel, so they appointed a young bloke who had just arrived as captain and left him to work it out for himself ... at 21 or 22! It was one of the most myopic decisions I can recall from the wise men of rugby, shameful really, and Randell was the only one who paid a price.

                                T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
                                • T
                                  The Docter @Mick Gold Coast QLD last edited by

                                  @Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD well said

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Tim
                                    Tim last edited by

                                    LOL, we've got a live one here.

                                    Or maybe a troll ...

                                    T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • T
                                      The Docter @Tim last edited by

                                      @Tim Nah, fair enough opinion. Getting off topic, but he was a good player who was made captain too young.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • MiketheSnow
                                        MiketheSnow last edited by

                                        Paps

                                        Wales did it with Warburton

                                        T gt12 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • T
                                          The Docter @MiketheSnow last edited by

                                          @MiketheSnow McCaw is the only young captain I can think of who reached the highest echelon. Even then, he needed to fail to succeed. Rare exception though.

                                          MiketheSnow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • A
                                            ARHS last edited by

                                            1 S Cane
                                            2 S Whitelock
                                            3 D Papalii

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                            • MiketheSnow
                                              MiketheSnow @The Docter last edited by

                                              @The-Docter said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                              @MiketheSnow McCaw is the only young captain I can think of who reached the highest echelon. Even then, he needed to fail to succeed. Rare exception though.

                                              NZ one I think you meant to write

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • Chris
                                                Chris last edited by

                                                1.Whitelock
                                                2.Savea
                                                3.Taylor

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • ACT Crusader
                                                  ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                  Savea or Scott Barrett

                                                  Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.

                                                  Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.

                                                  mariner4life N 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • gt12
                                                    gt12 @MiketheSnow last edited by

                                                    @MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                    Paps

                                                    Wales did it with Warburton

                                                    After the world cup

                                                    MiketheSnow 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                    • mencey
                                                      mencey last edited by

                                                      Savea for mine. Has to be someone that deserves his place and Ardie does all day long.

                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                      • MiketheSnow
                                                        MiketheSnow @gt12 last edited by

                                                        @gt12 said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                        @MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                        Paps

                                                        Wales did it with Warburton

                                                        After the world cup

                                                        NZ are ahead of the curve most of the time 😉

                                                        gt12 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • gt12
                                                          gt12 @MiketheSnow last edited by

                                                          @MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                          @gt12 said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                          @MiketheSnow said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                          Paps

                                                          Wales did it with Warburton

                                                          After the world cup

                                                          NZ are ahead of the curve most of the time 😉

                                                          Whitelock until then, or Cane.

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                          • F
                                                            Frye @The Docter last edited by

                                                            "atlternative"

                                                            I don't think this person is a real doctor...

                                                            N 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                            • Crucial
                                                              Crucial last edited by

                                                              Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
                                                              Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
                                                              There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
                                                              It will be Ardie.

                                                              F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                              • F
                                                                Frye @Crucial last edited by

                                                                @Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                                Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
                                                                Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
                                                                There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
                                                                It will be Ardie.

                                                                Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.

                                                                And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.

                                                                Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.

                                                                Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                • P
                                                                  ploughboy last edited by

                                                                  cane
                                                                  whitelock
                                                                  smith
                                                                  barrett b
                                                                  barrett s
                                                                  retalick

                                                                  savea

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • Crucial
                                                                    Crucial @Frye last edited by

                                                                    @Frye said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                                    @Crucial said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                                    Whitelock is a fine cap but the risk that we have to change again soon is big. We also need to get our understudy locks time on the field and Whitelock as cap upsets that.
                                                                    Dalton P hasn’t even earned his place in the side and has appeared like he’s still finding his feet. Let him get some time to get settled.
                                                                    There is no one else except Ardie. It doesn’t help the loose forward situation unless he starts at 7 and moves to 8 later in the game though.
                                                                    It will be Ardie.

                                                                    Against what opposition does Whitelock not start? He's starting and probably playing 80 IMO.

                                                                    And it's especially easy to give other locks gametime when Retallick (and possibly Barrett) are unavailable.

                                                                    Ardie's not captaincy material fullstop. And neither is Scott Barrett. Listening to either of them is painful. Whitelock is by far the most coherent and referee dialogue etc is important.

                                                                    My concern, possibly unfounded is that Whitelock is one injury away from retirement. Age and recovery time don't go well together. All I mean is that the risk is higher.
                                                                    The players will probably tell you otherwise regarding whether they listen to Ardie (or find him painful - weird comment). He is hugely respected among the players.
                                                                    As for being coherent? I truly do not know what on earth you mean here. Have you ever had a chat to the man? No more or less coherent than anyone else you would meet.
                                                                    My guess is that many players that know the guy would hold your post up as an example of the public not having a clue but having plenty of opinions.

                                                                    F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                    • sparky
                                                                      sparky last edited by

                                                                      1. Paps
                                                                      2. Ardie Savea
                                                                      3. Aaron Smith
                                                                      Kiwiwomble 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                      • F
                                                                        Frye @Crucial last edited by

                                                                        @Crucial respecting someone's abilities on the pitch is a world away from respecting what someone thinks or says. We've all encountered many guys like this I'm sure (for those of us that have played).

                                                                        Whitelock will make the world cup, and has a couple of big performances left in him. Just as he did in the Super final. He's been extremely durable up to this point so doesn't really make sense to not bet on him now.

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                        • mariner4life
                                                                          mariner4life @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                          @ACT-Crusader said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                                          Savea or Scott Barrett

                                                                          Hear me out on Barrett, I look at someone like Victor Matfield who played on the edge and if he had played the way he did in the last couple of years would’ve seen a few cards. I think Barrett is going to be a starter over the next few years.

                                                                          Him and Ardie are only a month apart in age.

                                                                          the greatest lineout forward of all time has a few more credits in the bank than old scottie though aye?

                                                                          look, i sorta get what you are saying, but the simple fact is this is 2022, and we are playing red card lottery every game. Scott Barrett had two instances in the first test of the series where he knew, as soon as he did it, that he had fucked up, because i saw him instinctively look at an official (in that way you can't help but spin your head if you edge one). now, he didn't fuck up, because nothing came from either of them. But he skates a fine line.

                                                                          He probably is nailed on to start you are right, because the selectors have a hard-on for him. But you are going to take a risk

                                                                          Two additional points
                                                                          Is he smart enough to do a good job (i don't know anything about him aside from onfield)
                                                                          I have seen the making of some talented but wayward players is giving them responsibility.

                                                                          Stargazer ACT Crusader 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • Kiwiwomble
                                                                            Kiwiwomble @sparky last edited by

                                                                            @sparky said in Vote All Black Captain:

                                                                            1. Paps
                                                                            2. Ardie Savea
                                                                            3. Aaron Smith

                                                                            yeah, i'd go with smith, still one of if not the first name on the sheet, captioned them before and captained the highlanders for years

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • No Quarter
                                                                              No Quarter last edited by

                                                                              This thread started off an absolute mess. I would be interested in an actual poll though - maybe one of the mods could fix it up? With options:

                                                                              Cane
                                                                              Whitelock
                                                                              Savea
                                                                              S Barrett
                                                                              Papalii
                                                                              Smith
                                                                              B Barrett
                                                                              Retallick
                                                                              Other

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • Stargazer
                                                                                Stargazer @mariner4life last edited by

                                                                                @mariner4life Scott Barrett has captained the Crusaders for the last 2-3 years, with David Havili and Codie Taylor as his deputies. He's done countless post-match interviews and pressers. He's smart enough and experienced enough. My only issue with him as a captain is his tackle technique. It's why I'd go for Whitelock until the end of the RWC.

                                                                                I've doubts about Ardie as captain because of his decision-making last year and also his lack of leadership in some of the Hurricanes' games, most notably the QF against the Brumbies.

                                                                                Also, I don't think halfbacks and first fives generally make good captains. They already have alot on their plate as game drivers; let them focus on that. You saw how that went terribly wrong for BB in the SRP final.

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                                • gt12
                                                                                  gt12 last edited by gt12

                                                                                  Is Rieko in the leadership group?

                                                                                  I don’t see it yet, but he is one of the very few players who command a spot and will be there for a while.

                                                                                  Future Tana-style captain?

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • ACT Crusader
                                                                                    ACT Crusader @mariner4life last edited by

                                                                                    @mariner4life no doubt about Matfield and he was fortunate to have been made permanent captain later in his career given the long tenure of Smit.

                                                                                    On Barrett, I used to worry about his discipline every game, but I think this season for the Saders (as captain) has seen him mature as player and leader. Less erratic which means his play has improved also.

                                                                                    He’s always had a good engine because of his running background, but his output is starting to match the athletic ability in my view.

                                                                                    mariner4life nzzp 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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