Italy v South Africa
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Springboks make four XV changes, bench Eben, go for six/two split
Jacques Nienaber has reacted to the latest defeat for his Springboks side by naming a team to take on Italy in Genoa that shows four changes.
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 81 caps, 65 pts (13t)
14 – Cheslin Kolbe (Toulon) – 22 caps, 61 pts (10t, 1c, 3p)
13 – Damian de Allende (Wild Knights) – 68 caps, 45 pts (9t)
12 – Andre Esterhuizen (Harlequins) – 10 caps, 0pts
11 – Kurt-Lee Arendse (Vodacom Bulls) – 5 caps, 20 pts (4t)
10 – Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers) – 25 caps, 25 pts (1t, 4c, 4p)
9 – Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles) – 44 caps, 30 pts (5t, 1c, 1p)
8 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 19 caps, 5 pts (1t)
7 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 61 caps, 15 pts (3t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 73 caps, 45 pts (9t)
5 – Marvin Orie (DHL Stormers) – 8 caps, 0 pts
4 – Salmaan Moerat (DHL Stormers) – 2 caps, 0 pts
3 – Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers) – 56 caps, 5 pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 53 caps, 55 pts (11t)
1 – Ox Nche (Cell C Sharks) – 17 caps, 0 ptsReplacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 57 caps, 65 pts (13t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 69 caps, 5 pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Stade Francais) – 40 caps, 0 pts
19 – Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks) – 108 caps, 15 pts (3t)
20 – Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs) – 29 caps, 15 pts (3t)
21 – Evan Roos (DHL Stormers) – 1 cap, 0 pts
22 – Cobus Reinach (Montpellier) – 22 caps, 40 pts (8t)
23 – Manie Libbok (DHL Stormers) – 1 cap, 0 pts -
The bench is very strong. Hope Libbok (Willemse
to 12) and Roos get enough time. We'll need them against England. -
Italians getting thumped
SA by 19-24
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How Mbonambi's try could have been awarded ? He was held and had to release the ball. It took at least two seconds before he stretched his arm for the line.
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@cgrant aren't you suppose to place the ball? The Bokke played some good running rugby. Without the NH players we just may see Libbok starting.
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@OomPB said in Italy v South Africa:
@cgrant aren't you suppose to place the ball? The Bokke played some good running rugby. Without the NH players we just may see Libbok starting.
I think @cgrant 's query was whether he dud it "immediately", which I'd the requirement of Kaw 14.7.a
Edit: I didn't see it so am not commenting on rights wrongs of the incident.
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@OomPB said in France vs Springboks:
@NTA I hope you watched the Italy test. The proof is in the pudding with Willemse, Willie and Libbok. They can change that dore Bok backline into a try scoring machine.
Here's what I saw:
First Quarter
Italian enthusiasm, to start with. Great looking stadium, suitably sized for Italian rugby.
Willemse with good hands for the opening try, bad missed tackle by Blue 13 who should have put Arendse into touch but too much pace in the last few yards.
Neither Bok centre really involved in much creative - crash, bash, and score tries when they're on offer.
Lot of Bok arm waving and carrying on to the officials for every perceived injustice (wonder where they got that from?), especially after the Italian try; someone in green is being updated by the ref as to how quick lineouts work, before the ref asks Siya to tell the player that the TMO is happy with it.Second Quarter
Starts with Mostert collapsing his own maul, then Willemse asking what happened - you're a back, and not the Captain, so maybe just sit this one out eh champ?
Kolbe takes the kicks I've just noticed, because Willemse can't? Not your traditional Bok flyhalf I guess
Lol South Africa throw their second row into Italy's lineout.
Early signs the Boks are able to penetrate the defending but Italy scramble.
Bok scrum looking seriously good. Whoever these newish second rows are, they're earning their keep.
Several aimless kick n hopes from the Boks that don't damage them too badly.
Italy's attack being stunted by attacking precisely where the Boks best defenders are: channel 2-3 (de Allende notable). If they could recycle a bit faster they could put their backrow up against Le Roux or one of the wingers to create a size mismatch.
Le Roux and Willemse defending right out on the edge of the field with one of the wingers, which means there are opportunities there.- Pause here: go watch the Italian maul in the 35th minute, 5m out from the Bok line. Mbonambi isn't even involved in hit as the Boks halt the momentum and get the scrum feed. He's got enough energy to cheer the decision, then suddenly goes down needing his leg looked at by a trainer and a drink of water. Surprised they didn't bring out an oxygen mask for him #unfit
Slightly late contact by Ioane on Le Roux, who crumples to deck in apparent agony, then jumps up when it is clear play will continue. Still has the energy to spend the next 5 minutes yapping. Nic White would be impressed. He'll have the last laugh in this game, but I look forward to him running that channel again (bet he won't).
Notable after that incident that between the whistle going and the Boks throwing it in at the lineout, a full 70 seconds have elapsed. Some of that is discussion with the ref, but most of it is walking to the lineout, having a conference, etc. Both sides are doing it and no wonder the game these days has fuck all ball in play.
Boks collapse their own maul again, and could feel a little miffed they didn't get a penalty for Italy being offside right in front.Third Quarter
Great try Kolbe after Italy fluff the restart.
Now Faf is kicking? What about Willemse?
Italy under pressure as the Books start to exert physical and structural intensity.
Boks using field position to attack, and Italy aren't seeing the ball. Good try Arendse.
Finally a flyhalf is kicking as Libbok steps up
Try was awarded at 47:59
Conversion was taken at 49:36
Should have been disallowed as it was beyond 90 seconds. Again: we're killing ourselves with time in play (or not)
Italy now standing too deep at 10 on attack - easy pickings as they try to go wide.
Boks change tactics temporarily, with physical ascendancy and a 14 point buffer, running from the 22 to set up field position
Still walking to lineouts tho
Kicking as much as they're passing, riding penalties upfield to maul
Italy's defensive structure and discipline collapsing as the benches empty - Boks are brining on the quality of Etzebeth and Marx. Italy are not.
One scrum blown for a knock on at 56:14 with first set called at 57:06. Reset needed which was "set" at 57:57 - jeez that's another 1:43 gone without ball in play.Fourth Quarter
Lol maul try 63rd minute same as Wallabies this morning: player not joining behind last feet. Nah let it go bru, we're good.
Nice try Italy after Ioane bosses Le Roux in the aerial contest on bouncing ball.
LeRoux then misses another tackle (his third?) on the Italian replacement prop.From here it's one way traffic. The Boks start to express themselves under zero pressure from Italy, who keep making mistakes.
The commentator is right: Le Roux is important to the boks on attack as a distributor. Libbok had completely stepped out of first receiver, because he's just not needed there by the looks.
But I'm still right in that Le Roux's defence is not up to test level as a fullback - he's just lucky he sits behind a bunch of other guys who do most of the work.
At least he yaps enough for all of them. -
The Bok game plan isn't some miraculous attacking weapon at this point. Nor is it very different to what they've done the last few years.
Under any sort of pressure they're reverting to type and kicking the fuck out of it - midfield contestable kicks with the hope the ball will come back or at least be too messy for the opposition to take advantage of.
Willemse is still finding his feet at 10, as evidenced by the fact that Le Roux steps in so often at first receiver.
And when he gets there, all he's doing is distributing to guys running hard lines and making individual talent count. There's no subtlety to it; just like their defence, it is built on speed, of which they have bags across the park. Just get it to the wings and let them hit the afterburners. Clean up the mess with more speed if the skill execution fails.
Kind of like the ABs actually; rely on a linebreak being made by a guy getting half a step on his opposition, and support.
If that stops working, just bash the shit out of people, piggyback upfield on penalties, and let your maul do the talking. That's probably where they have a slight edge on the ABs.
Libbok came on and had some nice touches then basically disappeared for Le Roux at 10.
Both he and Willemse have talent but how will they perform against a team that is less flaky? I suspect we will find out against England, but given both sides are reasonably limited in attack, well...
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@NTA you give the Aussie NTA negative comments but you are right about one thing. Let's see against England. We'll miss a few NH players. I am sure Libbok and Willemse will start in their Stormers positions of 10 and 12. I'll take a 1 point win against them. Our rush defense will be important.
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@OomPB said in Italy v South Africa:
@NTA you give the Aussie NTA negative comments but you are right about one thing. Let's see against England. We'll miss a few NH players. I am sure Libbok and Willemse will start in their Stormers positions of 10 and 12. I'll take a 1 point win against them. Our rush defense will be important.
My opinion is about as valid as anyone else's
Nobody has to like it.One thing is for sure: the Boks have challenges bringing players together from all over the globe, and will value any combinations they can develop in the systems they control at home.
It makes sense to keep your game plan as simple as possible, because it isn't that hard to adapt new players into it. If the plan is kick for territory and use your forwards to dominate, then open up once you have a lead, it isn't that much different from anyone else.
But is Willemse a 10? Can he play there without Le Roux to support him? If Le Roux isn't there, who comes in to that fullback/flyhalf role?
The Waratahs did that with Foley and Beale, and they were effective.
But it relied on a forward pack who laid a dominant platform, and that is no guarantee in Test rugby. -
@NTA The Boks forward pack is OK. Even the Lions pack is good in the URC.
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LibBok performance
