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    Most valuable player in WC to team

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    • Dan54
      Dan54 last edited by

      Ok fellas, I admit to seeing something very similar on another forum, and as I pretty keen on opinions of posters on this one I thought I should try and start same here.
      Who do you think is most valuable player/s (maybe 2-3 max) to ABs or in fact any teams in World cup?

      I still trying to work out ABs, but at moment I somehow think Jordie Barrett could be as (and could be well wrong) he has the abilty to be glue at 12 and maybe also have the skills to help out where RMo or BB at 10.
      Also think we need Ardie fit, and believe it or not BB as he the nearest thing we have a backs coach on field when we playing.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • mariner4life
        mariner4life last edited by

        If Aaron Smith gets injured in August we may as well stay home

        ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 12
        • Bovidae
          Bovidae last edited by

          Yep, Smith for me as well. We don't have another halfback who has the same qualities, and has the passing skills the ABs require to play their high tempo game.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • Chris
            Chris last edited by

            100% Smith no one comes near him if he falls over,
            Maybe Whitelock as he seems to Gell the Forward pack somewhat and seems to pull of some big moments when needed.
            Reiko Ioane would be my 3rd pick a true game breaker with his pace.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • M
              Mackerzzzz last edited by

              A Smith 100% we have no chance without him

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Crucial
                Crucial last edited by

                Smith, Ardie and whoever is our top tight head (as the pickings aren’t great)

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • Dan54
                  Dan54 last edited by Dan54

                  I admit I was going to say Sam W, but then when I thought of how we went when BB was binned against Poms, noone seemed to get backs together and he does it a lot during games, ditto I think we just may of possibly still held on and beaten Irish in 2nd test if Ardie had been allowed back on, even one player down. Smith is someone who slipped past my brain that I wouldn't argue with, I was kind of thinking of Jordie covering uo for RMo, who I think needs a bit of help and thats even when Smith gives hin great ball

                  mariner4life 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • mariner4life
                    mariner4life @Dan54 last edited by

                    @Dan54 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                    thinking of Jordie covering uo for RMo, who I think needs a bit of help

                    absolutely damning

                    Dan54 R 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Dan54
                      Dan54 @mariner4life last edited by Dan54

                      @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                      @Dan54 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                      thinking of Jordie covering uo for RMo, who I think needs a bit of help

                      absolutely damning

                      Probably is a bit mate, just not real convinced he a top line 10 at test level, though probably best we got in NZ at moment. I believe BB needs help if he at 10 too.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mariner4life
                        mariner4life last edited by

                        no i 100% agree with you.

                        I'm not as sold that JB is this magic steadying influence at 12 that some think, but

                        RM is the best we've got, so we are going with him no matter what. And we are going to have to make the best of it.

                        BB is far worse than RM at 10, the ABs worst performances by far last year had BB starting.

                        It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                        nzzp Crucial 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 6
                        • nzzp
                          nzzp @mariner4life last edited by

                          @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                          It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                          It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level

                          canefan No Quarter D 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                          • canefan
                            canefan @nzzp last edited by

                            @nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                            @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                            It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                            It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level

                            Globetrotters rugby indeed

                            mariner4life 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • No Quarter
                              No Quarter last edited by

                              In terms of ABs we really need the following to be fit and healthy at the business end:

                              Samisoni
                              Whitelock
                              Ardie
                              Smith
                              Jordie
                              Rieko
                              Jordan

                              If those guys are fit and firing we are a great shout of winning the thing. If any of them get injured, our chances take a serious hit.

                              In terms of positions, I think the most important are 2, 9, 10 and 15. As when blokes wearing those shirts have a shocker it really hurts their team. We obviously have a pretty big problem at 10.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                              • mariner4life
                                mariner4life @canefan last edited by

                                @canefan said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                @nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level

                                Globetrotters rugby indeed

                                it's also seriously imbalanced. If you took what i would consider to be the 26 "elite" players in NZ, or those most likely penned in to an AB squad
                                The Blues and Crusaders have 8 each. The chiefs 4, Highlanders and Hurricanes 3 each. Throw in the general weakness of the Australian teams and you really only need to be good a couple of times a year to win the comp.
                                That's not breeding the right players.

                                Dan54 kiwi_expat 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • No Quarter
                                  No Quarter @nzzp last edited by

                                  @nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                  @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                  It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                  It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level

                                  Part of the problem these day is test rugby is centered around size and defense. A wet dream for the Walrus. You can't run teams off their feet like you used to be able to as the game is so stop-start now, and teams use their subs tactically so their big blokes are less likely to be exploited at the back end of the game. I think that's an area the ABs have struggled with the past couple of years, as we tend to try to weather the storm then run them ragged. I don't think any of that is good for rugby, and the officials should be seriously trying to speed the game up if only for player safety, but this is really a post for the 'State of the Game' thread.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                  • Dan54
                                    Dan54 @mariner4life last edited by

                                    @mariner4life Amen mate, geez we miss the Saffa teams!

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • Crucial
                                      Crucial @mariner4life last edited by

                                      @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                      It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                      It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.

                                      10s need to learn how to control a game. How to kick for territory and to break teams down. Cast doubt in the opposition defensive plans etc.

                                      Just like how a young cricketer will struggle to get noticed with a good openers technique, a young 10 that doesn't feed the ball constantly to the backs won't last long.

                                      broughie 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • kiwi_expat
                                        kiwi_expat @mariner4life last edited by kiwi_expat

                                        @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                        @canefan said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                        @nzzp said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                        @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                        It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                        It's rapidly becoming the competition the Walrus said it was. Success at Super is no longer a good predictor of success at Test level

                                        Globetrotters rugby indeed

                                        it's also seriously imbalanced. If you took what i would consider to be the 26 "elite" players in NZ, or those most likely penned in to an AB squad
                                        The Blues and Crusaders have 8 each. The chiefs 4, Highlanders and Hurricanes 3 each. Throw in the general weakness of the Australian teams and you really only need to be good a couple of times a year to win the comp.
                                        That's not breeding the right players.

                                        So it's what one considers the 26 elite players? That's seems awfully subjective. For the record I think Chiefs have a squad that is very capable of winning 2023, the Hurricanes as well, both sides have a lot of young talent hitting their athletic peak years. When you look at the age profile of those two squads they have so many talented players hitting 23/24/25 this season. I think Chiefs squad is as good as Blues and Crusaders.

                                        mariner4life 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • mariner4life
                                          mariner4life @kiwi_expat last edited by

                                          @kiwi_expat take your boring narrative back to the Derp thread please

                                          kiwi_expat 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • kiwi_expat
                                            kiwi_expat last edited by kiwi_expat

                                            This post is deleted!
                                            KiwiMurph 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • R
                                              reddog @mariner4life last edited by

                                              @mariner4life I beg to disagree. In finals footie, all the 10s need a 12.
                                              In 2003 England without Mike Catt at 12 outside Wilko in their quarter versus Wales would have lost. At the same cup, Mauger calling for the missed pass didn't help Carlos escape the firing line in '03 either! Then in 2011 Nonu looked after Donald and was largely unheralded.

                                              mariner4life 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                              • mariner4life
                                                mariner4life @reddog last edited by

                                                @reddog said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                I beg to disagree. In finals footie, all the 10s need a 12.

                                                what? no shit. They need a halfback and an openside and a fullback and like, other players too

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                • kiwi_expat
                                                  kiwi_expat @mariner4life last edited by kiwi_expat

                                                  This post is deleted!
                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • KiwiMurph
                                                    KiwiMurph @kiwi_expat last edited by

                                                    This post is deleted!
                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • KiwiMurph
                                                      KiwiMurph last edited by

                                                      Looking at MVPs for other countries

                                                      Aus - Kerevi
                                                      Eng - Farrell
                                                      Boks - Faf? Eben?

                                                      mariner4life taniwharugby 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                      • mariner4life
                                                        mariner4life @KiwiMurph last edited by

                                                        @KiwiMurph said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                        Looking at MVPs for other countries

                                                        Aus - Kerevi
                                                        Eng - Farrell
                                                        Boks - Faf? Eben?

                                                        Kerevi is Aus's best player, but they might be totally screwed without Quade given the other options at 10.

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                        • taniwharugby
                                                          taniwharugby @KiwiMurph last edited by

                                                          @KiwiMurph Sexton for Ireland

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                          • MN5
                                                            MN5 last edited by

                                                            Hogg for Scotland.

                                                            Don’t know why I’m writing this, I’ll be flabbergasted if they make it out of the group stages to be honest.

                                                            MajorRage 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                            • MajorRage
                                                              MajorRage @MN5 last edited by

                                                              @MN5 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                              Hogg for Scotland.

                                                              Don’t know why I’m writing this, I’ll be flabbergasted if they make it out of the group stages to be honest.

                                                              I'd put Finn Russell ahead of Hogg these days on the importance to the team.

                                                              MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                              • MN5
                                                                MN5 @MajorRage last edited by

                                                                @MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                @MN5 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                Hogg for Scotland.

                                                                Don’t know why I’m writing this, I’ll be flabbergasted if they make it out of the group stages to be honest.

                                                                I'd put Finn Russell ahead of Hogg these days on the importance to the team.

                                                                Yeah but the coaches don’t.

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • M
                                                                  Mackerzzzz last edited by

                                                                  Ireland: J Sexton
                                                                  France: Dupont
                                                                  NZ: A Smith
                                                                  SA: E Etzebeth
                                                                  England: M Itoje
                                                                  Australia: Q Cooper
                                                                  Scotland: S Hogg
                                                                  Argentina: J Montoya
                                                                  Wales: D Biggar

                                                                  ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                  • broughie
                                                                    broughie @Crucial last edited by

                                                                    @Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                    @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                    It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                                                    It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.

                                                                    Agree with your post but just wondering where those big munters are at Super Rugby level? Must stop growing.

                                                                    booboo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • ACT Crusader
                                                                      ACT Crusader @mariner4life last edited by

                                                                      @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                      If Aaron Smith gets injured in August we may as well stay home

                                                                      Or go and play and allow Fozzie to break another record by not getting out of the pool stage

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • MiketheSnow
                                                                        MiketheSnow last edited by

                                                                        Wales - Faletau

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • ACT Crusader
                                                                          ACT Crusader @Mackerzzzz last edited by

                                                                          @Mackerzzzz said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                          France: Dupont
                                                                          SA: E Etzebeth
                                                                          England: M Itoje

                                                                          France - I think DuPont’s backup will do a good job, but I reckon if one of the French midfield go down they are in a massive hole given so much of their play on both sides of the ball centre on them playing well.

                                                                          SA - agree from a leadership perspective. He seems to get the other guys fired up (for better or worse)

                                                                          England - the gap between Itoje’s level of play and the next cab off the rank is massive. But whilst this might not be a popular choice, Farrell is probably more important to England’s chances.

                                                                          Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                          • Bones
                                                                            Bones @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                            @ACT-Crusader yeah, I'm quite surprised how underrated Fickou is. I'd say if he's not level with Dupont in terms of a difference maker, he's not far off.

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • Victor Meldrew
                                                                              Victor Meldrew last edited by Victor Meldrew

                                                                              Pretty much agree with what's been written above but I'd go for Kolisi for Sth Africa.

                                                                              France is interesting as while Dupont is an unbelievable player, they seem to have so much talent across the park, you could name quite a few players in the MVP category.

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • OomPB
                                                                                OomPB last edited by

                                                                                For the Springboks
                                                                                1 Eben Etzebeth. He is the fire in the pack.
                                                                                2. Frans Malherbe. TH is the most important position.
                                                                                3. Damian Willemse. He improved and can slot in 15, 12 & 10. His set of skills changed the Bok backline into a totally different proposition.

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                • booboo
                                                                                  booboo @broughie last edited by

                                                                                  @broughie said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                  @Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                  @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                  It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                                                                  It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.

                                                                                  Agree with your post but just wondering where those big munters are at Super Rugby level? Must stop growing.

                                                                                  Found out.

                                                                                  Rugby gets hard when you start to play against adults, and they've not learned how to work hard as they haven't had to.

                                                                                  Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                                  • Crucial
                                                                                    Crucial @booboo last edited by

                                                                                    @booboo said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                    @broughie said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                    @Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                    @mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:

                                                                                    It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.

                                                                                    It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.

                                                                                    Agree with your post but just wondering where those big munters are at Super Rugby level? Must stop growing.

                                                                                    Found out.

                                                                                    Rugby gets hard when you start to play against adults, and they've not learned how to work hard as they haven't had to.

                                                                                    Partly and partly because size is relative. An early developer at school level can be average against other s once they grow.

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
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