RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji
-
@GibbonRib iirc, he popped when the scrum was going forward, regardless the ball was coming out of the scrum and penalties are always ignored in that case. So nothing wrong there.
Might not have happened if Wales had a couple of guys in the bin though eh...
-
@Bones said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@GibbonRib iirc, he popped when the scrum was going forward, regardless the ball was coming out of the scrum and penalties are always ignored in that case. So nothing wrong there.
Might not have happened if Wales had a couple of guys in the bin though eh...
Your memory fails you. In the first one the scrum was stationary when he stood up, the ball was still in the scrum and remained there for a number of seconds after. In the second one the scrum was going sideways, and again the ball was still in. I'm sure Welsh front row were ropeable that they'd popped him up but it wasn't paid - unless the scrum is over it should be a pen
But that's not really the point, I'm just saying that this Rassie-esque nonsense of claiming one side was buggered by the ref and the other got all the calls going their way is meh and bad for rugby.
-
@GibbonRib said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Bones said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@GibbonRib iirc, he popped when the scrum was going forward, regardless the ball was coming out of the scrum and penalties are always ignored in that case. So nothing wrong there.
Might not have happened if Wales had a couple of guys in the bin though eh...
Your memory fails you. In the first one the scrum was stationary when he stood up, the ball was still in the scrum and remained there for a number of seconds after. In the second one the scrum was going sideways, and again the ball was still in. I'm sure Welsh front row were ropeable that they'd popped him up but it wasn't paid - unless the scrum is over it should be a pen
But that's not really the point, I'm just saying that this Rassie-esque nonsense of claiming one side was buggered by the ref and the other got all the calls going their way is meh and bad for rugby.
The issue for me with Carley’s performance was not so much that he missed so much, because, as you say, that affected both sides. Supporters of both Wales and Fiji can point to various blunders by Carley and say “what if” or “yeah but”. Refs and TMOs miss stuff all the time. However what was undoubtedly an effect on the outcome and not subject to “being missed” was his warnings to Wales which were then not backed up by actions. That is not missing stuff, that is bottling the decision.
Not Wales’ fault and in truth they played the ref very well, but it was pretty crap from Carley.
-
@Catogrande yeah, I can't argue with that
-
@Catogrande Do you not think that was because Carley is more familiar with the Welsh players? Unconscious bias perhaps?
That, IMO, is generally the issue with Tier 2 teams and refs from Tier 1 refs. Unless the players from the Tier 2 nations play for big teams in Europe and have exposure to the refs, they just don't have the same rapport. I wonder if the Fijians would have got more from a French ref given they have more exposure to those refs in the Top14?
-
@Catogrande said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
Yeah, he’s a class act. English you know. 😁
Born in Wales. To English parents. So they're a class act.
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Catogrande Do you not think that was because Carley is more familiar with the Welsh players? Unconscious bias perhaps?
That, IMO, is generally the issue with Tier 2 teams and refs from Tier 1 refs. Unless the players from the Tier 2 nations play for big teams in Europe and have exposure to the refs, they just don't have the same rapport. I wonder if the Fijians would have got more from a French ref given they have more exposure to those refs in the Top14?
It may well be a bit of unconscious bias, I certainly wouldn't go down the route of thinking it was a conscious bias at all. In memory though I seem to recall many times where Tier 2 sides have got the arse in such ways, almost as if the refs are a bit scared of clamping down on the Tier 1 guys for whatever reason. I'm not just talking Carley here.
-
@Catogrande I don't think it is specifically Carley. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last.
Who can forget Paddy O'Brien in '99 singlehandedly shafting the Fijians against France. Carley's performance isn't even in the same galaxy as that one.
-
@Bones said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@NTA said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
They still had their fate in their hands - despite any issue they may have with the officiating - and couldn't execute.
I find this line of thinking a bit insincere. It would've been a helluva lot easier to execute it they weren't getting shafted.
I haven’t seen this game, but I agree with this general sentiment.
I always find it a bit trite when folk say that despite you getting shafted repeatedly, you still had a chance to win but you didn’t take it.
Like it’s that simple. Maybe you were exhausted from putting everything into it despite the 16 blokes against you. Maybe you didn’t execute in that moment because you knew you weren’t going to get a call so you were trying something different/desperate. Maybe you should have actually been 10 points up already with the pressure on the opposition to attack and recover points?
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Catogrande I don't think it is specifically Carley. He isn't the first, and he won't be the last.
Who can forget Paddy O'Brien in '99 singlehandedly shafting the Fijians against France. Carley's performance isn't even in the same galaxy as that one.
I will admit - I had forgotten this
-
We've been good for one very poor/controversial refereeing performance/decision in most world cups.
Derek Bevan in 1995 (SA vs France)
Paddy O'Brien in 1999 (France vs Fiji)
Andre Watson in 2003 (Eng vs Oz)
Wayne Barnes in 2007 (NZ vs France)
Bryce Lawrence in 2011 (Oz vs SA)
Craig Joubert in 2015 (Oz vs Scotland)
Angus Gardner in 2019 (Ireland vs Japan)
-
@voodoo said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Bones said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@NTA said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
They still had their fate in their hands - despite any issue they may have with the officiating - and couldn't execute.
I find this line of thinking a bit insincere. It would've been a helluva lot easier to execute it they weren't getting shafted.
I always find it a bit trite when folk say that despite you getting shafted repeatedly, you still had a chance to win but you didn’t take it.
If only one side (in this case Fiji) were getting shafted, then absolutely
But when calls go against both sides throughout the match then it's a fair observation on events IMHO
-
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@voodoo said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@Bones said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@NTA said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
They still had their fate in their hands - despite any issue they may have with the officiating - and couldn't execute.
I find this line of thinking a bit insincere. It would've been a helluva lot easier to execute it they weren't getting shafted.
I always find it a bit trite when folk say that despite you getting shafted repeatedly, you still had a chance to win but you didn’t take it.
If only one side (in this case Fiji) were getting shafted, then absolutely
But when calls go against both sides throughout the match then it's a fair observation on events IMHO
As I said Mike, I didn’t watch this one, just a general comment - not meant to be specifically relevant to what seems to be an avalanche of outrage against the ref being biased against the beautiful Fijians who were shafted by the filthy Welsh coal miners
-
Really entertaining game of footy.
I'm in the sheer incompetence camp re the ref. Fiji got the worst of it no doubt, but there's no way to know that it was bias when he is that fucking hopeless, so why assume the worst?
Cold comfort to the Fijians, but he should never ref at that level again, just horrible. -
Worst refereeing performance at a RWC since 2007. Carley should be sent home after the group stage.
-
Not the greatest footage - there’s no close up slo mo because it wasn’t seen and/or reviewed - but this is arguably the biggest officiating mistake of the match
Tompkins makes a fantastic break in midfield and after passing the ball the Fijian winger (Ravutaumada) hits him late with a no arms tackle with direct shoulder contact to the head
If this had been seen and reviewed it would most certainly have been a YC with review
And my feeling is the YC would have been upgraded to a RC
That’s Fiji down to 14 men from 48 mins when Wales were controlling the match
It wouldn’t have affected the result, but it could quite possibly have negated the Fijians 2 BPs
-
@MiketheSnow shoulder charge, yes.
Direct contact to the head? Difficult to judge. No blood as a result (I saw this used as mitigation for the Kriel incident, so I'm just being consistent) so can't have been direct head contact
You won Mike, move on. Nobody loves you, everybody hates you. You're not Fiji and never will be. Make peace with it
-
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@MiketheSnow shoulder charge, yes.
Direct contact to the head? Difficult to judge. No blood as a result (I saw this used as mitigation for the Kriel incident, so I'm just being consistent) so can't have been direct head contact
You won Mike, move on. Nobody loves you, everybody hates you. You're not Fiji and never will be. Make peace with it
Just the way we like it
-
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@stodders said in RWC Week 1: Wales v Fiji:
@MiketheSnow shoulder charge, yes.
Direct contact to the head? Difficult to judge. No blood as a result (I saw this used as mitigation for the Kriel incident, so I'm just being consistent) so can't have been direct head contact
You won Mike, move on. Nobody loves you, everybody hates you. You're not Fiji and never will be. Make peace with it
Just the way we like it
Welcome brother.
-
