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Local police viewpoint;
The observations of a NZ Police officer relating to the govt funding to the Mongrel Mob.
Hi all, just want to put a local Shield Snorters perspective on the Kahukura Drug Rehab funding for a program based in Waipawa with strong connections to Sonny SMITH who is National President of Notorious Mongrel Mob.
Before I go further I would like to say that I am normally in favour of any initiative that will support those fighting meth addiction and anything that would help take meth out of our communities. This includes support for the non traditional service providers because it is a case of ‘not one size fits all’.
Having said that here are my reasons why I don’t support this initiative in Waipawa.
I know the people involved and spent the last 20 years of my career predominantly in the Hastings CIB conducting investigations into gang crime. There were the usual beatings, stabbing, shooting. UC operations, telephone intercepts, electronics and informants etc etc.
The big difference in Hastings and Central Shield Snorters is that there is only one gang, the Mongrel Mob. Albeit there are now multiple chapters and growing numbers. There are individuals from other gangs but they keep a low profile. Notorious are one of the oldest and most established in the area.
Over the years Sonny has been caught up in UC operations, electronics etc and has had numerous search warrants at his home address. Pretty sure I have dug up the back yard where the ‘community garden’ is located. Not much happens in Shield Snorters or CHB that isn’t sanctioned by Sonny; but he is now smart enough to keep at ‘arms reach’ so to speak.
Fair to say that Notorious (and other chapters) have also been involved in a few government funded work schemes over the years that didn’t produce many tangible results.
So onto specifics. In May 2021 Shield Snorters Police terminated Operation Dusk that targeted senior members of the mob mainly members of Notorious. Drugs, guns, cash etc were seized including about $2million in assets. Predominantly it related to meth dealing.
One of the higher profile targets that was caught up in the operation was John Joseph MORRELL (JJ MORRELL). JJ subsequently died of a suspected suicide a week later on 21/05/2021. There is a good summary around the operation in a STUFF article dated 11/06/2021.
JJ was a senior patched Notorious member and there was nothing that he (and the others) was doing that would not have been sanctioned by gang hierarchy….that’s just how they do business.
When Operation Dusk was terminated police were jubilant and celebrated seizure of the assets under the proceeds of crime and rightly said it was a deterrent for getting involved in organised crime.
Now less than 2 months later $2.75million is going back to an initiative associated to same Notorious gang members to get gang members off meth? I personally don’t see how they have changed their ways in such a short period of time.
I would also like to point out that Shield Snorters has some of the highest use of meth in the country. In Hastings and CHB it is all meth trade is related to the Mongrel Mob (different chapters etc), they control the trade and create the addictions and peddle the misery. They also have the power to stop the supply of meth anytime they want to forgo their lucrative trade…not likely.
About 12 months ago a local Flaxmere (suburb of Hastings) community champion by the name of Henare O’Keefe suggested that some of the $3million on proceeds of crime money seized in Shield Snorters (prior to Op Dusk) should go back to community initiatives to keep kids out of gangs and in school/sports/employment….guess what…it couldn’t be done.
Shield Snorters also has one of the highest youth suicide rates in the country, and one of the highest suicide rates in general (ironic that JJ died of suspected suicide).
The Kahukura program has been given $2.75million over 4 years and is likely to have maybe 30-40 participants per year at best.
That kind of money would be of significantly better use in other community initiatives or funding Mike King’s Gumboot initiative…and it would have better oversight.
The money going back into this initiative is a slap in the face for Shield Snorters Police that did some great work in Op Dusk and other operations. It is a slap in the face for all the other meth addicts that can’t get help because of lack of placements on programs…when this one is set aside for gang members that have caused much of the addiction in the community. It is a slap in the face for many other worthwhile community initiatives that can’t get funding.
While the Kahukura program may have good backing from other people and providers it lacks all credibility when it is associated with the mob and Sonny Smith in CHB/Shield Snorters.
I’m sure that there are plenty of politicians and Wellington bureaucrats (Police included) that are celebrating the ‘warm fuzzies’ of engagement with non traditional providers etc etc….but I don’t think they understand the wider implications of this decision and their support for this program. -
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@godder said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@godder Isn’t the difference that those people were going straight, or a5 least trying to? They were warning of the error of their ways, and attempting redemption. And it may work.
But what about a person or group still elbows deep in the commission of those crimes? Sonny Smith is still an active criminal. The possibility that the people involved in the rehabilitation are unaware of his activities, and vice versa, stretches credibility.
I'm sure most ex-crims in that situation are on the righteous path, minus a few slipups and the occasional liar.
I'm sure they are aware of any criminal records, the NZ Police are in favour and presumably would know his criminal history/present well and have considered that in their advice. But if gang members won't listen to anyone else, it's a dilemma in the dictionary sense of the word - don't do it, bad outcomes, do it and get better outcomes but pay criminals (if there are no good outcomes, the funding dries up).
In terms of process, that's a high-powered group of ministers for what is a comparatively small amount from a fund that isn't technically taxes in the greater government scheme of things. H2R's website lists the Salvation Army as a client - would have been politically expedient just to fund the Sallies as National suggest and if it turned out to be H2R providing the programme, well, independence and all that, but the government didn't do that.
Whether the NZ Police are in favour all depends on who you mean. It may be that the people in national HQ are ok with it, but the police I know here on the ground think it is a disgrace and aren’t even aware of having been consulted, let alone listened to. The Mob here are increasingly armed, which is causing the other gangs to tool up too, and they are being used against civilians.
I’m not that sold on the Sallies TBH, still haven’t forgiven me for putting that vile bullshit through my letterbox when they were trying to stop the Homosexual Law Reform bill back in 86. They also have grown into a large, diluted organisation that hoovers up all the charitable funding whilst other providers struggle to get heard.
By NZ Police, I mean the organisation (in practice, that probably means officers with commissioner or superintendent in their job title), not the individual police officers. As Kirwan's post illustrates, and as the Police Association has said as the staff union, plenty of officers are vehemently opposed to it.
If I get the chance to catch up with them, I'd be interested in one of the minister's thought process.
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@godder said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@godder said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@godder Isn’t the difference that those people were going straight, or a5 least trying to? They were warning of the error of their ways, and attempting redemption. And it may work.
But what about a person or group still elbows deep in the commission of those crimes? Sonny Smith is still an active criminal. The possibility that the people involved in the rehabilitation are unaware of his activities, and vice versa, stretches credibility.
I'm sure most ex-crims in that situation are on the righteous path, minus a few slipups and the occasional liar.
I'm sure they are aware of any criminal records, the NZ Police are in favour and presumably would know his criminal history/present well and have considered that in their advice. But if gang members won't listen to anyone else, it's a dilemma in the dictionary sense of the word - don't do it, bad outcomes, do it and get better outcomes but pay criminals (if there are no good outcomes, the funding dries up).
In terms of process, that's a high-powered group of ministers for what is a comparatively small amount from a fund that isn't technically taxes in the greater government scheme of things. H2R's website lists the Salvation Army as a client - would have been politically expedient just to fund the Sallies as National suggest and if it turned out to be H2R providing the programme, well, independence and all that, but the government didn't do that.
Whether the NZ Police are in favour all depends on who you mean. It may be that the people in national HQ are ok with it, but the police I know here on the ground think it is a disgrace and aren’t even aware of having been consulted, let alone listened to. The Mob here are increasingly armed, which is causing the other gangs to tool up too, and they are being used against civilians.
I’m not that sold on the Sallies TBH, still haven’t forgiven me for putting that vile bullshit through my letterbox when they were trying to stop the Homosexual Law Reform bill back in 86. They also have grown into a large, diluted organisation that hoovers up all the charitable funding whilst other providers struggle to get heard.
By NZ Police, I mean the organisation (in practice, that probably means officers with commissioner or superintendent in their job title), not the individual police officers. As Kirwan's post illustrates, and as the Police Association has said as the staff union, plenty of officers are vehemently opposed to it.
If I get the chance to catch up with them, I'd be interested in one of the minister's thought process.
Wasn’t impressed by the interview I saw with I think the minister of police. Seemed confused why people were outraged by funding the Mob.
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@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
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@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Nats going to push the point as well. From Judith:
**On a weekly basis we learn of increased gang-related gun crime, shootings and escalating addiction, particularly in our provinces.
Under Labour we have seen:
Gang membership increase by 50%, leaving New Zealanders feeling less safe, and criminals more emboldened.
The number of serious assaults has more than doubled leaving our streets more violent.
Failure to deliver on their promise of 1800 more Police over three years.
Failure to deliver on their promise of 700 new Police targeting organised crime.
And on top of this we now have a Government actively working to coddle up to gangs – rather than hold them to account.**All politics of course but it doesn't look good.
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@snowy said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Nats going to push the point as well. From Judith:
**On a weekly basis we learn of increased gang-related gun crime, shootings and escalating addiction, particularly in our provinces.
Under Labour we have seen:
Gang membership increase by 50%, leaving New Zealanders feeling less safe, and criminals more emboldened.
The number of serious assaults has more than doubled leaving our streets more violent.
Failure to deliver on their promise of 1800 more Police over three years.
Failure to deliver on their promise of 700 new Police targeting organised crime.
And on top of this we now have a Government actively working to coddle up to gangs – rather than hold them to account.**All politics of course but it doesn't look good.
Absolutely political, but has the handy element of being all true.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.? -
@kirwan Haven't heard any rebuttal from Labour either. Would have thought they would have come back at that straight away.
Well, if they had any ammunition perhaps.
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
Not all gang members or associates are crims.
Hmmm. Guilt by association? Being part of an organised crime group should have some repercussions even if you didn't actively commit a crime.
From a moral standpoint anyway.
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@snowy said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan Haven't heard any rebuttal from Labour either. Would have thought they would have come back at that straight away.
Well, if they had any ammunition perhaps.
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
Not all gang members or associates are crims.
Hmmm. Guilt by association? Being part of an organised crime group should have some repercussions even if you didn't actively commit a crime.
From a moral standpoint anyway.
Yeah. The only thing is that in many communities and support circles being an associate and wearing a tShirt can often mean survival rather than condoning.
I get what you mean but as I keep pointing out gangs in NZ (esp the Māori ones) are way more intricate and diverse in actions and behaviours than some think. -
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
I get what you mean but as I keep pointing out gangs in NZ (esp the Māori ones) are way more intricate and diverse in actions and behaviours than some think.
Yeah they are.
Where our bach is a Maori community and the people are awesome. Nobody wears patches but the community is really strong, it is almost gang like. They look after each other. We have been accepted into the group and they really protect us and our property.
The pricks that stole the mag wheels off my Hilux there were extremely lucky they were from out of town. The neighbours checked it out for me. Nobody messes with my neighbour. I definitely wouldn't. Think Jake the Muss.There is also a huge police presence there and any genuine gang, patch wearing would not go down well with anybody.
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@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.?The period being measured are the Labour terms, since they have been in power gang numbers have risen by 50%. Four years isn't overnight.
And it's Labour's policy, not National's. Surprised you are being fooled by that sort of pathetic smokescreen. Only Labour have given money to the Mongrel Mob to help resolve a problem they are actively causing.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.?The period being measured are the Labour terms, since they have been in power gang numbers have risen by 50%. Four years isn't overnight.
And it's Labour's policy, not National's. Surprised you are being fooled by that sort of pathetic smokescreen. Only Labour have given money to the Mongrel Mob to help resolve a problem they are actively causing.
Back to this again.
Please show me where Labour have given money directly to 'the Mongrel Mob'. You keep using the name as a catch all term. Does that mean that if a Mob member works for a business that business is ineligible for any govt contracts, because that's what you are arguing.
As for the gang numbers, that's not from agreed accurate numbers either. Police themselves say that it isn't accurate to use in that context. Police Int data would list all and any associates, friends, business contacts etc. If you look at the stats across districts either some areas are seeing massive number growth or the intelligence in those areas is gathering more data.
If you do work to identify more people to put on the list then the number will increase. Bit like saying 'more people are running red lights after we installed cameras to catch them' -
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.?The period being measured are the Labour terms, since they have been in power gang numbers have risen by 50%. Four years isn't overnight.
And it's Labour's policy, not National's. Surprised you are being fooled by that sort of pathetic smokescreen. Only Labour have given money to the Mongrel Mob to help resolve a problem they are actively causing.
Back to this again.
Please show me where Labour have given money directly to 'the Mongrel Mob'. You keep using the name as a catch all term. Does that mean that if a Mob member works for a business that business is ineligible for any govt contracts, because that's what you are arguing.
As for the gang numbers, that's not from agreed accurate numbers either. Police themselves say that it isn't accurate to use in that context. Police Int data would list all and any associates, friends, business contacts etc. If you look at the stats across districts either some areas are seeing massive number growth or the intelligence in those areas is gathering more data.
If you do work to identify more people to put on the list then the number will increase. Bit like saying 'more people are running red lights after we installed cameras to catch them'This has already been answered by several posters, and quoted comments above. Feel free to re-read.
Currently, you seem to be the only one that can't make the link, and seem to think you know more than the local police involved.
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
I'm stopping on this now
Two days and several posts ago....
So true.
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.?The period being measured are the Labour terms, since they have been in power gang numbers have risen by 50%. Four years isn't overnight.
And it's Labour's policy, not National's. Surprised you are being fooled by that sort of pathetic smokescreen. Only Labour have given money to the Mongrel Mob to help resolve a problem they are actively causing.
Back to this again.
Please show me where Labour have given money directly to 'the Mongrel Mob'. You keep using the name as a catch all term. Does that mean that if a Mob member works for a business that business is ineligible for any govt contracts, because that's what you are arguing.
As for the gang numbers, that's not from agreed accurate numbers either. Police themselves say that it isn't accurate to use in that context. Police Int data would list all and any associates, friends, business contacts etc. If you look at the stats across districts either some areas are seeing massive number growth or the intelligence in those areas is gathering more data.
If you do work to identify more people to put on the list then the number will increase. Bit like saying 'more people are running red lights after we installed cameras to catch them'This has already been answered by several posters, and quoted comments above. Feel free to re-read.
Currently, you seem to be the only one that can't make the link, and seem to think you know more than the local police involved.
Not one thing there proves your assertion that money is being given directly to the Mongrel Mob. They are involved and are providing a paid service to another party that is a part of the overall programme. This is no different at all to similar schemes run under other govts using the same funding process.
I understand the connection, of course, but you (and others) keep stating incorrect 'facts'
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@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@crucial said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve heard. People here are pretty sick of pandering to these thugs. The kids in Hastings wear Mob “merch”. It’s cool. The Mob’s has been put through some kind of official reputation scrubbing process where people who should know better are trying to gaslight us with the idea that it’s all just harmless dressing up. Instead of the, you know, killing and raping.
Well it’s an opportunity for National to have clear differences from Labour.
Have a laundry list of taxes to roll back, and go hard on the gangs. It’s not just the money laundering Labour has inexplicably involved it self with but their soft polices have seen gang numbers sky rocket.
Gang numbers rising doesn't happen overnight. Collective responsibility required on that. Finger pointing is what means that nothing meaningful gets achieved by either party. Fair enough to call out if promises aren't addressed but to say that increased numbers are due to one party or another ignores the underlying issues.
Again though 'gang numbers' is misleading in itself. Gangs are very intricate and not as simple as many of these arguments make out. Not all gang members or associates are crims. It's a huge problem and not one that can be fixed by 'law and order' hard policies. That has been tried in the past and only entrenches things further.
What are the 'soft policies'?
Are you advocating that National roll back their own legislation to stop the perception of 'money laundering'.?The period being measured are the Labour terms, since they have been in power gang numbers have risen by 50%. Four years isn't overnight.
And it's Labour's policy, not National's. Surprised you are being fooled by that sort of pathetic smokescreen. Only Labour have given money to the Mongrel Mob to help resolve a problem they are actively causing.
Back to this again.
Please show me where Labour have given money directly to 'the Mongrel Mob'. You keep using the name as a catch all term. Does that mean that if a Mob member works for a business that business is ineligible for any govt contracts, because that's what you are arguing.
As for the gang numbers, that's not from agreed accurate numbers either. Police themselves say that it isn't accurate to use in that context. Police Int data would list all and any associates, friends, business contacts etc. If you look at the stats across districts either some areas are seeing massive number growth or the intelligence in those areas is gathering more data.
If you do work to identify more people to put on the list then the number will increase. Bit like saying 'more people are running red lights after we installed cameras to catch them'This has already been answered by several posters, and quoted comments above. Feel free to re-read.
Currently, you seem to be the only one that can't make the link, and seem to think you know more than the local police involved.
Not one thing there proves your assertion that money is being given directly to the Mongrel Mob. They are involved and are providing a paid service to another party that is a part of the overall programme. This is no different at all to similar schemes run under other govts using the same funding process.
I understand the connection, of course, but you (and others) keep stating incorrect 'facts'
So the Police Officer I quoted above is wrong, and you know better? That's a pretty amusing take.
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so now at least we know what Crucial looks like IRL
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