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@Kirwan said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@gollum said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Kirwan said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Have to laugh at the other thread about a world war, as if we aren't already in one.
Difference is we are fighting people that are happy to take decades to win and even breed us out.
Really? How many westerners died in the first 2? How many Kiwis?
In this one you think we are in, you, as a kiwi, are literally more likley to have been punched by a pissed up Jerry Collins than injured by Islamists in the last 10 years in NZ. I'm not sold that qualifies as a world war...
Thats just hyperbolic bullshit & a delusional re what an actual world war - or even a local war, looks like.
So because it's not fully arrived in NZ it can't be a world war? Interesting definition.
Kind of ignores the fact that 50-80 potential terrorists are being tracked in NZ because of links to these nutjobs.
Also ignores that it's a different kind of world war that what WWII was. State sponsored asymmetric warfare, and with a stated invasion policy of breeding out the locals and undermining western law and culture.
Of course it's happening more in Europe, and to a lesser extent the US, purely because we are hard to get to. You'd have to really pushing your head into the sand hard to not think there is a worldwide war being waged on the west by Islam.
Suppose it's ignorable if you just call every attack nothing to do with the religion of peace, just the work of a lone wolf, bra.
But I'm sure you will, as the poster proven wrong on geo-political events most often on this site (well, expect maybe Winger), will lecture me on how I'm wrong and it was germans killing each other yesterday, and the assassination of the Russian ambassador was nothing to do with Islam.
(Drops microphone )
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@gollum said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Kirwan said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Have to laugh at the other thread about a world war, as if we aren't already in one.
Difference is we are fighting people that are happy to take decades to win and even breed us out.
Really? How many westerners died in the first 2? How many Kiwis?
In this one you think we are in, you, as a kiwi, are literally more likley to have been punched by a pissed up Jerry Collins than injured by Islamists in the last 10 years in NZ. I'm not sold that qualifies as a world war...
in the last World War there were Germans and Japanese running amok on New Zealand...
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-There's only one group of people on the planet beheading other people who do not believe as they do.
-There's only one group of people pushing gays off rooftops.
-There's only one group of people flying airliners into skyscrapers.
-There's only one group of people vowing to exterminate all other groups.
-There's only one group of people carrying out daily suicide bombings.
-There's only one group of people that strap bombs to their children and send them into crowded marketplaces to die and kill others.
-There's only one group of people calling America "the great Satan" and vowing to kill Americans indiscriminately.
-There's only one group of people that have legalized pedophilia, honor killings of women and daughters, oppressing women, male guardianship of women, modesty dress codes, lack of marital rights, forced marriage, stoning deaths of homosexuals, women committing adultery, etc.And that group is defended and/or supported by much of the Western Left (read Merkel, Hillary & Obama)
Times are about to change...........at least in U.S. policy.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
-There's only one group of people on the planet beheading other people who do not believe as they do.
-There's only one group of people pushing gays off rooftops.
-There's only one group of people flying airliners into skyscrapers.
-There's only one group of people vowing to exterminate all other groups.
-There's only one group of people carrying out daily suicide bombings.
-There's only one group of people that strap bombs to their children and send them into crowded marketplaces to die and kill others.
-There's only one group of people calling America "the great Satan" and vowing to kill Americans indiscriminately.
-There's only one group of people that have legalized pedophilia, honor killings of women and daughters, oppressing women, male guardianship of women, modesty dress codes, lack of marital rights, forced marriage, stoning deaths of homosexuals, women committing adultery, etc.And that group is defended and/or supported by much of the Western Left (read Merkel, Hillary & Obama)
Times are about to change...........at least in U.S. policy.
Racist bigot.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Straight talk.
While I agree with what she says I can't stand her. She strikes me as the sort of person who could just as easily argue the exact opposite point if she thought it would get her fame and attention.
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(P.S. While realising you probably got that list off a Facebook post somewhere, it still isn't entirely accurate for ISIS - or even Islam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan ).
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
(P.S. While realising you probably got that list off a Facebook post somewhere, it still isn't entirely accurate for ISIS - or even Islam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Satan ).
If you include ISIS, terrorist sponsors, Al Qaeda, Etc under the umbrella of Muslim Extremists, then it seems a fairly uncontroversial list.
Which bit was inaccurate?
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"Only one group" - if you're going to say "Muslim Extremists" then OK, fine. But he didn't.
From the other items in the list, I assumed he was talking about ISIS. Or followers of Islam in general.
- "The Great Satan" wasn't one of theirs.
- Neither did they fly airliners into skyscrapers.
- Nor were they the only group to behead people (AQ did until it proved unpopular for their stated aims - which was to remove the West from Islam, not from the planet)
- "Daily" suicide bombings is questionable, but I'll accept "regular"
- Pushing gays off rooftops versus killing them in any which way is hardly isolated to ISIS/Islam
- Legalised child marriage/rape/paedophilia, oppression of women through forced marriage, FGM, male guardianship (overlording?), dress codes, death by stoning or any means - all lean toward cultural issues, that quite often parallel, but aren't isolated to, Islam.
The attacks that get covered the most in the media are the ones that affect us directly. Doesn't matter whether they're part of ISIS, inspired by ISIS, or just plain bonkers and want to kill someone in the name of something. Like that Evangelical Christian bloke in Colorado who shot up an abortion clinic in the name of the babies. Complete nutjob. Still killed 5 people.
Nobody who is right in the head wants to go on a suicide mission. That's why the supposed leaders never do. I've seen the footage of the young guys who get selected and cry tears of joy that they're going to serve the cause. Fucking hell... Religious fervour might get them over the line, but you've got to have run a decent race to sign up in the first place.
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@NTA you should read this is book mate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War_(non-fiction_book)
In it he discusses that when the coalition invaded Iraq they got more people signing up for suicide bombings than they had things to bomb so they game them numbers and told them to go home and wait for a call when their number came up.
Also when the Taliban started taking over Afghanistan they were into beheading and amputations, one of the lesser know aspects of their arseholery was not letting women outside without a husband or male relative which in a war torn country meant thousands of widows starved if they didn't have kids to go outside and beg for food. -
Might be time for me to re-read Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order. My memory may be fading but he increasingly appears to have been correct.
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
"Only one group" - if you're going to say "Muslim Extremists" then OK, fine. But he didn't.
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?
And for the record I got it from a NY Times comments section, not Facebook.
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@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?I was more answering Kirwan's reply.
As I said: not 100% sure who the "one group" referred to initially.
But shit - that's a pretty big group. I'd rather throw in all the religious whackos together if its alright.
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@NTA said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Frank said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So your main point of contention is I forgot to include other Muslim extremist groups under this list of atrocities. I unfairly focused on ISIS.
Do I understand that correctly?I was more answering Kirwan's reply.
As I said: not 100% sure who the "one group" referred to initially.
But shit - that's a pretty big group. I'd rather throw in all the religious whackos together if its alright.
No it is not alright, it is mealy mouthed obfuscation.
Just another tactic to minimise the role of Islam in global terrrorism.
Maybe a compromise and you just lump all the Islamic whackos together.... actually just the Islamic whackos who want to murder otehrs, or support them.
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@NTA with due respect since we've been friendly a long time, I can't really comprehend how you could equate Islamic terrorism with violence from any other religion, and I think it's about time you explained it using accurate statistics-for it seems very clear to me that an overwhelming preponderance of Terrorist attacks killing large numbers of people in many countries, are in the name of Islam.
Are you scared to speak the truth, or are you just a useful compliant liberal?
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@NTA
Nick (or other liberals on this board)- aside from the obvious of not meddling in Syria in the first place (thanks Obama and Hillary and Kerry) what would you have done / do about the refugee problem?-Would you have blocked them in the first place and forced them to go to only Arab countries?
-Set up enclosed refugee camps in countries nearby like Turkey?
-Or let them in wholesale like Merkel has?
-Would you start to deport them now in the wake of these terror attacks?I have asked a bunch of liberals these questions and have yet to hear any concrete plan - except saying tolerance every third word and a sense we owe these people somehow.
Personally, I would never have let them come in because I totally disagree with importing people with massively different belief systems, especially when an unknown proportion are actively despise the West and/or are at least sympathetic to Jihadist causes. On top of that, there are a large proportion that while not ISIS affiliated, are extremely anti-human rights.
I learned a lot of this from a guy called Sam Harris. (a liberal by and large)
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@Kirwan said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
So because it's not fully arrived in NZ it can't be a world war? Interesting definition.
Kind of ignores the fact that 50-80 potential terrorists are being tracked in NZ because of links to these nutjobs.
Also ignores that it's a different kind of world war that what WWII was. State sponsored asymmetric warfare, and with a stated invasion policy of breeding out the locals and undermining western law and culture.
Of course it's happening more in Europe, and to a lesser extent the US, purely because we are hard to get to. You'd have to really pushing your head into the sand hard to not think there is a worldwide war being waged on the west by Islam.
Suppose it's ignorable if you just call every attack nothing to do with the religion of peace, just the work of a lone wolf, bra.
It hasn't "fully arrived" anywhere in the West. In the 15 years its been going on.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing Islamic Terrorism isn't a thing, its a huge issue in todays world & its very much islamic, no issue with that. Same way hard left terror was a thing in the 70's. On another thread yesterday I directly named a stack of terrorist groups & pointed the finger right at the country that dictates Islamic thought to those groups FFS.
You seem to be desperately trying to tell me I don't think Islam was at the core of the attack this week what I actually said was your war line was crap.
The bit I find hyperbolic bullshit is the "we are at war!!" crap. We are not at war. There is ZERO existential threaty to the US, UK, NZ etc from Islamic terror any more than the UK was under some massive threat as the IRA mortared hotels, blew up buses & killed 100's. Or ETA in Spain or the Red Brigade in Germany. Fewer people have been killed in Europe by AQ & ISIS in the 15 year "war" than were killed in the 70's & early 80's by communist inspired terror.
The NZ secret service have regularly tracked Maori extremists, were we at war with them? Cause they killed the same number of Kiwis in NZ as AQ.
The whole "war" bullshit is just a crock to let polititians run on "I'll protect you!" platforms while pushing through internet privacy invasions, wire taps & so on. And it sells on the news.
To look at Berlin this week & go "yep, thats a war!" you'd have to have no fucking idea what Dresden looked like. There are 10's of millions of muslims in Europe, if we were at war with them it would not be one attack kills 12 people.
As for my track record, really? Cause I 100% got Trumps chances of winning wrong (tho' so far not his willingness or ability to implenent anything he promised), but what else you got? Since you've clearly been counting
The Failed policy of Multiculturalism