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People often point to Australia's massive migration and its reasonable level of success. However, that is predicated on looking primarily at the 1950s type migration from war-torn Europe to a country with a demand for workers. Most notable was the Snowy Hydro.
What made it easier and the loony left ignore is despite having different languages, they were basically Christians, so they shared a common base religion and were different shades of "white". Greeks, Italians etc. may think of themselves as different, but to Australians, they were all wogs.
It's much harder to assimilate when you increasingly have less in common. Look different? Speak differently? Different religion? Different culture? Different values? That starts to add up to try somewhere else.
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@antipodean what about asians in australia (and nz)?
i'm talking here about chinese, vietnamese etc that have been around for similar generations or more as your wogs - the (great) grandparents tick all your boxes: look different, speak different, different religion, different culture, different values. yet they are now integrated. -
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
And that is the entire argument.
When you move somewhere, regardless of as a refugee/immigrant/whatever, should you try to acclimatize as much as possible, should the location change to accommodate you, or should their be a happy medium.
Generally those that immigrate to foreign situations and thrive tend to try to assimilate
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean what about asians in australia (and nz)?
i'm talking here about chinese, vietnamese etc that have been around for similar generations or more as your wogs - the (great) grandparents tick all your boxes: look different, speak different, different religion, different culture, different values. yet they are now integrated.As above. Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino, Indians. All try to assimilate rather than try to live exactly as they did in the old country
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean what about asians in australia (and nz)?
i'm talking here about chinese, vietnamese etc that have been around for similar generations or more as your wogs - the (great) grandparents tick all your boxes: look different, speak different, different religion, different culture, different values. yet they are now integrated.Good question and I knew someone would ask, so here's my answer:
Asians have been in Australia since forever. Small towns had a "chinese" restaurant. Cities had China Towns. They were hard working, valued education, largely contributed to society and their religion was different but not in your face. They certainly weren't running around demanding people's head were cut off. They were also largely socially conservative, which fit right in. This despite Asian immigration before, during and after the White Australia policy.
The only issue was the large scale Vietnamese migration which had some resulting crime coming as it did at the same time as heroin influx.
Forward a generation or two, they speak like Australians, look like Australians, have good rates of intermarriage, high rates of education and career success. You'd have to guess what religion they follow, if any. They like sports Australians like, because they're Australians.
Contrast that to a group of people that ensure you know they follow a different religion. One that is antithetical to values Australians like to espouse. Demand you don't offend them, want to be segregated so they can use the same facilities as everyone else, but according to their culture. Don't appear to value education. Certainly don't find employment like other migrants have. Commit vastly more crimes per capita.
What part of that is assimilating? It's self-imposed apartheid.
Quite frankly, I'd be happy to have Muslim women migrate here, just so they can get away from the Y-chromosome fluffybunnies they're related to and decide for themselves if they want to marry before they're 10 or have their genitals mutilated. Or swim in public pools when other Australians are. Or go outside...
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Yes, the Asian one is a good discussion, but I think it's relatively simple. They work fucking hard, and the vast majority of them try to spend their lives under the radar.
Let say you are running a company and you need a sales/IR person - english speaking only. You'd be happy to put the right person from pretty much so any country into an IR / Sales job to help sell your firm. If they are well presented, well spoken, well connected and well groomed, then everybody is a winner, right?
But then what if they were wearing a hijab ... and then what if they were wearing a letterbox hijab.
I know I wouldn't hire them.
And that's where the problems start, and in a lot of way, finish.
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ICE better get busy deporting these Democrat voters:
Despite media reports of a massive crackdown by President Trump on illegal immigrants, just a tiny percentage of the nearly 1 million on the government's deportation list have been arrested, according to statistics provided to Congress.The 680 seized in recent sweeps by U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement agents represent just .07 percent of the 950,062 with deportation orders as of May 21, 2016.
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So funny when this democrat is out on the spot to actually identify conservative people o any of the major networks...
Absolute proof that the MSM is just liberal PR machine for the Democrats. Go to 23:20 -
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean what about asians in australia (and nz)?
i'm talking here about chinese, vietnamese etc that have been around for similar generations or more as your wogs - the (great) grandparents tick all your boxes: look different, speak different, different religion, different culture, different values. yet they are now integrated.Contrast that to a group of people that ensure you know they follow a different religion. One that is antithetical to values Australians like to espouse. Demand you don't offend them, want to be segregated so they can use the same facilities as everyone else, but according to their culture. Don't appear to value education. Certainly don't find employment like other migrants have. Commit vastly more crimes per capita.
What part of that is assimilating? It's self-imposed apartheid.
Is there any qualitative data for these claims?
I'm not denying them but questioning the accuracy above anecdotal. You may well be right but in Australia I never come across this behaviour in a sense that is demonstrably a trend.
I do see some stuff on the news media espousing this (although I seldom watch mainstream TV) but I'd be interested if there was any factual evidence a particular group (well it's muslims ain't it?) behaving consistently in this manner, even though a quick poll of most Aussies would agree, but that doesn't make it so
Higher unemployment for this cohort?
Less academic and school performance for this cohort?
Higher numbers (per capita) in prisons for this cohort?You may well be right, I'll not ask for links but an affirmation that this data does actually exist.
Also brings up the distinction of immigrants versus 2nd generation born in Australia exhibiting the same tendencies and behaviours, which surely then becomes a "home grown " Aussie problem.
Again you may be right but as I say I see no distinction i n real life to the differences of behaviour in different cultures a s whole - except on mainstream TV which in Australia is shocking ly bollocks...and exists only to sell advertising space not to accurately inform the masses.
Just interested if your comments are fact based or anecdotal "feelings"
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China town is an example of integration?
I actually 100% buy the idea of cultural integration, I was harping on about it on here long before Trump, but its a stretch to saying non European cultures have either fully integrated or always been disasters.
There are a stack of places in the UK that are very much Indian areas, they have their own schools - one of my mates heads up a Gujrati school, Neasden temple is fricking massive.
Education level is a massive factor. Most of the main wave of indians to the UK were reasonably educated shopkeeper classes, they weren't day laborers or the unemployable. I'd guess (?) most of the recent Chinese to NZ & Aussie are educated & fairly rich.
Same with the Iranians into the US & UK in the early 1980s, massively successful intergration, but they were primarily the entire Iranian middle & upper class. There was a great opportunity re Syrian to do the same - cherry pick the middle class, doctors, engineeerrs etc, all of whom were first out the door when the civil war kicked off.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean what about asians in australia (and nz)?
i'm talking here about chinese, vietnamese etc that have been around for similar generations or more as your wogs - the (great) grandparents tick all your boxes: look different, speak different, different religion, different culture, different values. yet they are now integrated.Contrast that to a group of people that ensure you know they follow a different religion. One that is antithetical to values Australians like to espouse. Demand you don't offend them, want to be segregated so they can use the same facilities as everyone else, but according to their culture. Don't appear to value education. Certainly don't find employment like other migrants have. Commit vastly more crimes per capita.
What part of that is assimilating? It's self-imposed apartheid.
Is there any qualitative data for these claims?
I'm not denying them but questioning the accuracy above anecdotal. You may well be right but in Australia I never come across this behaviour in a sense that is demonstrably a trend.
I do see some stuff on the news media espousing this (although I seldom watch mainstream TV) but I'd be interested if there was any factual evidence a particular group (well it's muslims ain't it?) behaving consistently in this manner, even though a quick poll of most Aussies would agree, but that doesn't make it so
Higher unemployment for this cohort?
Released by the Immigration Department, The People of Australia study revealed an Islamic population of 476,291 — up 40 per cent compared to the 2006 census.
Muslims had an unemployment rate of 12.1 per cent in 2011 while the national average was 5.2 per cent (HeraldSun)
Less academic and school performance for this cohort?
Data for this is basically impossible to find broken down by region and what does exist is self-reporting. Then there's the problem of overseas qualifications. Educated Pakistanis for example, need to have their qualifications recognised and validated. So until they do, it can't legitimately be counted as educational attainment.
However, for certain migrants they discourage their daughters from pursuing higher educational attainment and actively constrain them from certain parts of the curriculum. These people largely come from the same places where they prohibit girls from attending at all.
So in discussing Muslim integration issues, one also has to be constantly aware that you're also predominately taking about Middle East/ North Africa.
Higher numbers (per capita) in prisons for this cohort?
In Victoria and NSW, 8 per cent and 9 per cent of the respective prison populations identify as Muslim, compared with 2.2 per cent and 3 per cent of the general populations. (The Australian)
You may well be right, I'll not ask for links but an affirmation that this data does actually exist.
Also brings up the distinction of immigrants versus 2nd generation born in Australia exhibiting the same tendencies and behaviours, which surely then becomes a "home grown " Aussie problem.
True. That's why it is instructive to look elsewhere for examples of what generational integration looks like.
@gollum said in US Politics:
China town is an example of integration?
Was my post not clear in its construction?
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
In Victoria and NSW, 8 per cent and 9 per cent of the respective prison populations identify as Muslim, compared with 2.2 per cent and 3 per cent of the general populations
Wonder how many went in as Muslim, and how many didn't?
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
In Victoria and NSW, 8 per cent and 9 per cent of the respective prison populations identify as Muslim, compared with 2.2 per cent and 3 per cent of the general populations
Wonder how many went in as Muslim, and how many didn't?
It's true that prison conversions exist. But until we capture religious affiliation before and after incarceration, we'd have to make a judgement call based on our own Ockham's razor.
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How bad will it get in Sweden? Well, the troubles are just beginning...Rinkeby, Sweden On Fire! Muslim Immigrants Riot and Set Fires! Beautiful And Ravaged Sweden – ENEMY INSIDE THE GATES!
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Yeah, soon it'll be as bad as Florida -
There were 50 per cent more murders last year in the part of Florida where Donald Trump spoke at a rally over the weekend, than in all of Sweden, according to former Swedish Prime Minister Carl Bildt.
Tell you what, lets track it. From here. Swedes killed by Muslims this year v Americans killed by children under 12. We can total up at xmas.
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