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This is what I like about NZ politics:
Asked if he felt robbed given National had secured the highest vote, English said it was MMP and the result was "a legitimate and fair result of the election campaign. We certainly accept it and I'm sure New Zealanders will".
However, he said it was likely many of National's supporters would have believed National should form the government.
"It's an unusual result for MMP - there's probably not been a party anywhere in the world that got 44 per cent of the vote and didn't win the election. But we all know the rules, we campaign according to those results."With all the talk about voter fraud and stealing elections over here in the States, it is a refreshing change. Politicians need to set a better example of showing that accepting losses are also part of a democracy.
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I think English gave a very statesman like speech - enriched by genuine emotion when he talked about sharing the election campaign with his family.
Adern also spoke very well, although I am still waiting for to actually say something.
Winnie and Shaw - not so much.
It all hinges on the economy. Winnie got his excuses in early but if he is right and there is an economic shock - then a one term govt is almost a given.
If Adern/Robertson lead an incremental govt like Clark/Cullen then as Hooroo says so what?
The govt has generated a heap of expectations and there are going to be a lot of people disappointed in the messiah because while there was clearly no 11 Billion hole also clearly there isn't the money for all the promises.
I wish them well. The next 12 mths will be very interesting. If at the end of that period it looks like they are delivering on a substantial number of promises then National will fracture and English will be rolled and Nats will lose in 2020. If the govt are looking weak the Nats will unify around English and he will win next time.
In the govt's favour is Winnie's legacy. I reckon he will reign in his arrogance and disruptiveness because he doesn't want to be seen as contributing to the defeat of 4 governments.
the Greens hahahahahahahahahaha
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Sweet, Labour got in and now they are giving me a day off on Monday, that's how you win votes!!
I read last night that the new Govt. will face the largest opposition in history of NZ Govt.
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@taniwharugby Mainly because our parliament is bigger than it was in FPP days
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
I read last night that the new Govt. will face the largest opposition in history of NZ Govt.
and a health, opposition, still connected into ministries and media. They should do a better job than Labour at holding the government to account.
Criticism is easy. Doing things is where you start to tread on toes, leaks happen, etc... and there is no bottomless pit of money either.
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
I read last night that the new Govt. will face the largest opposition in history of NZ Govt.
The New Zealand public?
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@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
I read last night that the new Govt. will face the largest opposition in history of NZ Govt.
Criticism is easy. Doing things is where you start to tread on toes, leaks happen, etc... and there is no bottomless pit of money either.
Yup. Just ask the Republicans in the US, haha.
It is going to be bloody interesting in the next 12 months. Again, the hyperbole going out on Twitter etc is outrageous - some saying a giant victory for women and girls or some such shit. Exactly how they figure this I'm sure I don't know. If Labour had swept to power and could govern alone, absolutely. Forced to be a three party coalition with a highly inexperienced leader...not so much.
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@donsteppa said in NZ Politics:
I see the odious Cameron Slater is predictably continuing to blame Bill English for the election result in his comments section. English could turn water into wine and Slater would whine it was the wrong vintage...
English needed to distance himself from Key's disastrous immigration policy of the last four years. Instead, National refused to even discuss it (the most important policy change in recent history!), and further they were happy to propagate the inane practice of labelling anyone who did as racist.
He ran on a "business as usual" platform, when that platform was becoming increasingly unpopular. Key's policies got them there, but English did nothing to change direction.
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@tim said in NZ Politics:
@donsteppa said in NZ Politics:
I see the odious Cameron Slater is predictably continuing to blame Bill English for the election result in his comments section. English could turn water into wine and Slater would whine it was the wrong vintage...
English needed to distance himself from Key's disastrous immigration policy of the last four years. Instead, National refused to even discuss it (the most important policy change in recent history!), and further they were happy to propagate the inane practice of labelling anyone who did as racist.
He ran on a "business as usual" platform, when that platform was becoming increasingly unpopular. Key's policies got them there, but English did nothing to change direction.
They sleepwalked through the final term and paid the price. The other major problem was the loss of UF and The Maori Party (assuming they would have gone with National again). The two major goals should be bringing in a new generation of MPs to combat PM Stardust and fostering a party who could become a future coalition partner
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@tim Did anyone actually say anything of interest?
I guess Metiria....
Oh and Joyce's 11.5 Billion hole
Apart from the debates where nothing much was said by anyone English was barely reported such was the media tsunami of Jacindamania
While I agree and have been saying for years that Key's government did nothing you can't say that the National strategy of Business as Usual didn't work.
By some way the biggest party. More seats than the left combined.
the problem for National was a lack of coalition partners meaning they had to win over Winnie.
I can't imagine any other strategy National could have run that would have delivered them an absolute majority or increased the vote for ACT or MP.
Key saw this which is why he jumped. English is actually a detail guy but that would have never been reported and played into Labour's strategy of portraying him as a grey nerd.
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@dogmeat Sorry dude, but if he had any ability as a "details guy" (I see him as mediocre at best) then he would've understood the difference between 10 to 20k per annum and 70k per annum immigration. At least enough to discuss it. He might also have understood the economic value added per employee of different industries, and how low it is for tourism and hospitality.
No good being a "details guy" if you have the details wrong, and you don't discuss the meaningful ones. I doubt he ever mentioned GDP per capita in the entire campaign.
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@tim I've met the guy and I stand by my opinion that I found him a bit of a swot and all over the detail.
the caveat being that this was in his previous role.
Certainly far more details person than Key who I also met several times.
He comes across to me as more on top of detail than Adern but I've never met her and suspect that like Clark she will put in long nights to make sure she's across everything.
I don't know why he would mention GDP/capita as it shows Nats in a less positive light
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
I don't know why he would mention GDP/capita as it shows Nats in a less positive light
With a new leader, I would really have liked to have seen some focus on better jobs, or higher productivity. Instead nothing, and hostility when the JB Ware report was mentioned. Very arrogant and dismissive of performance questions. One of the main reason I didn't vote for National.
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Unfortunately one of the trends in politics over the last 30 years has been to say nothing in case you get hung for it.
Adern was the same.
I agree with you on productivity. Its been an issue in NZ for decades. GDP growth has always been about working longer rather than increasing productivity and more latterly about immigration and the housing boom plus natural disasters.
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I’d have thought 44.4% of the vote for a party going for a fourth term in government was a fairly historic achievement, though I suppose you can both credit or blame English for that on your point of view.
The August immigration policy changes were substantive, people claiming otherwise haven’t spoken to many employers about their skills and labour concerns recently.
There’s a reason for the rise in ‘sob stories’ of people on Stuff & the Herald recently upset that Immigration NZ isn’t recognising their marriage for the purposes of a partnership visa. It has quietly got much harder for people to achieve permenant residence, and there is some desperate (attempted) gaming of the system going on. Ditto people ‘buying’ jobs as reported in the media this week.
It is a shame the way that the race card gets thrown around in the debate though.
The new government has left themselves plenty wriggle room by using the headline migration figure I see, which doesn’t, (as but one example) include the 10,500 return workers under the recognised seasonal employer scheme. The detail is still to follow though.
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@mokey said in NZ Politics:
Yep. It should have been we hear you, NZ. Let's keep what is working and tweak what isn't. Immigration, environment are two topics where business as usual was never going to fly.
I worried all along that housing would be an issue too, and it was
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so on one hand they (LABNZF) want to cut immigration, but the Greens hand want to increase Refugee numbers...
Think we need an acronym for them....
NZLagre....could almost be a beer, bet it'd be shit though!
NZ Politics