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Yeah that's why the Mexican government is in shut down over budgets, right?
The Mexicans are pissing themselves as much as the Russians, with the FBI investigating/having investigated Trump for working for the Russians, like the Manchurian Candidate for real
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@Machpants said in US Politics:
Yeah that's why the Mexican government is in shut down over budgets, right?
The Mexicans are pissing themselves as much as the Russians, with the FBI investigating/having investigated Trump for working for the Russians, like the Manchurian Candidate for real
sorry @Machpants I genuinely did nit understand a word of thst. Any chance you can elaborate for morans like me?
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@Duluth thanks, insightful as always.
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@Tim said in US Politics:
Mattis: One More General for the ‘Self Licking Ice Cream Cone’
It's amazing how the accepted narrative appears to be never criticise when retired Generals continue to advocate for a continuous combat state.
Becoming a multi-millionaire makes a mockery of the claim of a life spent in service for which others owe you a debt of gratitude.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
When the shutdown happened over Obama's Health Care plans, the Democrats were up in arms, calling it an attack on democracy as it was a key election pledge which he (reasonably) had a right to get money for. Now Trump wants to built a wall as it was an election pledge, they block funds and call his plans an affront to democracy.
Dumb politics which plays into Trump's hands and makes his opponents look soft on crime, drug-smuggling and illegal immigration - and hypocrites.You reap what you sow; I read elsewhere that in the modern era these types of government shutdowns started during Ronald's presidency.
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the wall, in theory is a good idea, as above, more symbolic than anything as it is unlikely to do anything in terms of slowing or reducing number of people crossing the border, cos we know it aint gonna stop it.
China made a big wall once, the Mongols still got over/past/around/through....
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
When the shutdown happened over Obama's Health Care plans, the Democrats were up in arms, calling it an attack on democracy as it was a key election pledge which he (reasonably) had a right to get money for. Now Trump wants to built a wall as it was an election pledge, they block funds and call his plans an affront to democracy.
Dumb politics which plays into Trump's hands and makes his opponents look soft on crime, drug-smuggling and illegal immigration - and hypocrites.You reap what you sow; I read elsewhere that in the modern era these types of government shutdowns started during Ronald's presidency.
What a mess. These Americans are crazy
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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
the wall, in theory is a good idea, as above, more symbolic than anything as it is unlikely to do anything in terms of slowing or reducing number of people crossing the border, cos we know it aint gonna stop it.
China made a big wall once, the Mongols still got over/past/around/through....
What makes you think it won't? It's worked extremely well in Israel and Hungary. From memory a 90% reduction, of course it isn't perfect but even taking a very strong stance significantly reduces illegal immigration.
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@Rembrandt like anything really, those determined enough will find a way, plus those who make a business of it, will find a way.
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@taniwharugby Of course. But a 90% improvement is massive. It's not everything but a significant decrease in drug supply, human trafficking and border rape should be well worth the expense.
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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
like anything really, those determined enough will find a way, plus those who make a business of it, will find a way
Do you lock your door when you go away? Because apparently it is pointless because if someone is determined they will just break it down.
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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt like anything really, those determined enough will find a way, plus those who make a business of it, will find a way.
You could say the same about any fence anywhere that protects a premises. The point is to provide a deterrent and to limit intrusion as much as possible. Obviously the best deterrent would be if Mexico (and much of Latin America) wasn't such a violent shit show, but if that can't be improved then a farking great wall is a pretty good option.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback @Rancid-Schnitzel I dont actually get notifications for this thread as it is on ignore...I just browse from time to time to poke my head in for a fish...
I do lock my doors, but if I didnt and my house was robbed, my insurer might try not to pay me...
Not to mention I never it was a bad idea, I am just not convinced (particularly in that part of the world) it is going to be the silver bullet to stem the tide of illegals and drugs...
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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback @Rancid-Schnitzel I dont actually get notifications for this thread as it is on ignore...I just browse from time to time to poke my head in for a fish...
I do lock my doors, but if I didnt and my house was robbed, my insurer might try not to pay me...
Not to mention I never it was a bad idea, I am just not convinced (particularly in that part of the world) it is going to be the silver bullet to stem the tide of illegals and drugs...
We agree. Nobody is saying it is a silver bullet. It is part of the solution.
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Below is a nice little example of the shit China has been able to get away with.
China are economic nationalists par extreme (while publicly advocating free markets and globalism where it helps them)
They have been allowed to get away with in the US because the Senators and Congress members of both parties (especially Republicans) are paid off by the Chamber of Commerce.
Trump faces the weird situation of his own party being against his interests but not being able to publicly say it because of the dis-unifying effects. The establishment GOP make noises about China for the constituents they claim to represent , but behind the scenes they are in really tight with the anti-tariffs pro-offshoring pro-China Chamber of Commerce. -
Here's a simple rundown of what already exists in the way of 'wall'
'Trump's Wall' is simply a concept to appease a fan base without explanation of what already exists and what is or isn't effective. Other arguments/ideals aside it is a waste of money.
West of El Paso could conceivably have a few areas upgraded and a few others filled in (but these are likely assessed as low risk and low value for money or they would have been done already).
East of El Paso already has a moat instead of a wall and would require relinquishing land by cutting off corners (Make America smaller). Some Americans already have their livelihoods in an effective no-mans land from earlier border reinforcements.
I have no issue at all with maintaining borders and sovereignty or the right to police them. I do think it is stupid though to waste money you don't have on something that will reduce the effective size of your own land on a misrepresented premise.
Causing financial suffering to govt employees to try and force a result counter to the normal democratic process is a shit move as well.
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