Abortion
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@antipodean well then there's no one left with a valid say. A caucus of women and their friends?
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
Seems super bizarre to me. I'd say the overwhelming majority of people would agree at least on a fundamental level that abortion itself is a bad thing if not wrong.
Perhaps in Georgia. Most people I know keep their personal opinions to themselves if they don't outright support a woman's right to choose. Particularly men.
It's not a man vs woman thing. In fact studies have found that overall women are more pro-life than men, so I don't think men should feel like they can't have an opinion on this. It's a complex moral debate.
I don't see how men have a say on women's bodies, particularly women they don't know.
Here's how simple it is, if you're opposed to abortion, don't have one.
Having been on the less "pure" side of the issue, the above is spot on
It's way too much of a mind fuck for anybody to decipher so live and let live will always be the only solution.
In this modern world, reasonable term abortion must be an option to couples and individuals
Edit: dark pun not intended 🙂
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I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
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@Siam said in US Politics:
@antipodean well then there's no one left with a valid say. A caucus of women and their friends?
It's a discussion I leave entirely to women solely because I'll never have to make that decision. Personally I'm pro-choice because I recognise the reality of the situation. A dear friend of mine for a long time is very opposed to abortion and that's her choice. I respect it.. We don't discuss it. I get involved when men start insisting they can tell women what to do with their bodies.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
Your world sucks man! 😉
Turn down a sure root for a sound abortion stance? Not even a sloppy pull out strategy? 🙂
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@Siam said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
Your world sucks man! 😉
Turn down a sure root for a sound abortion stance? Not even a sloppy pull out strategy? 🙂
I got the snip.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
So the guy has to accept and be responsible for his actions but not the woman?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
So the guy has to accept and be responsible for his actions but not the woman?
That argument doesn't make sense. She has to either abort it or take it to term in which case she then has to offer it for adoption or raise it. She's still left with a choice and has to take responsibility for those actions.
What are you going to do with a guy that says "don't have an abortion" but then won't pay child support?
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
So the guy has to accept and be responsible for his actions but not the woman?
That argument doesn't make sense. She has to either abort it or take it to term in which case she then has to offer it for adoption or raise it. She's still left with a choice and has to take responsibility for those actions.
What are you going to do with a guy that says "don't have an abortion" but then won't pay child support?
How doesn't it make sense? If it all boils down to an absolute right to choose then why should the guy have any obligation to look after a kid he didn't want?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
So the guy has to accept and be responsible for his actions but not the woman?
That argument doesn't make sense. She has to either abort it or take it to term in which case she then has to offer it for adoption or raise it. She's still left with a choice and has to take responsibility for those actions.
What are you going to do with a guy that says "don't have an abortion" but then won't pay child support?
How doesn't it make sense?
Because you accepted the risk of her conceiving and leaving the decision what followed to her. That's why.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in US Politics:
I guess if the guy has no right to say anything about the child he created then he should equally have no obligation to provide for a child he didn't want. His right to choose and all....
Talking about choice, you're free to minimise your risks of conceiving. All the way to jerking off to ensure you don't have to pay child support.
And free to choose not to pay child support?
No, although I concede a tremendous amount needs to be done to fix broader Family Court issues.
So the guy has to accept and be responsible for his actions but not the woman?
That argument doesn't make sense. She has to either abort it or take it to term in which case she then has to offer it for adoption or raise it. She's still left with a choice and has to take responsibility for those actions.
What are you going to do with a guy that says "don't have an abortion" but then won't pay child support?
How doesn't it make sense?
Because you accepted the risk of her conceiving and leaving the decision what followed to her. That's why.
I thought the guy had no say in the decision. Or at least he shouldn't.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
Seems super bizarre to me. I'd say the overwhelming majority of people would agree at least on a fundamental level that abortion itself is a bad thing if not wrong.
Perhaps in Georgia. Most people I know keep their personal opinions to themselves if they don't outright support a woman's right to choose. Particularly men.
It's not a man vs woman thing. In fact studies have found that overall women are more pro-life than men, so I don't think men should feel like they can't have an opinion on this. It's a complex moral debate.
I don't see how men have a say on women's bodies, particularly women they don't know.
Here's how simple it is, if you're opposed to abortion, don't have one.
Having been on the less "pure" side of the issue, the above is spot on
It's way too much of a mind fuck for anybody to decipher so live and let live will always be the only solution.
In this modern world, reasonable term abortion must be an option to couples and individuals
Edit: dark pun not intended 🙂
I do agree, though that argument doesn't wash with pro-lifers. They are against abortion because they believe human life begins at conception, so see it as murder. Technically they are correct, although there is a world of difference between a first trimester fetus and third trimester. So the question is really: at what point is abortion murder, if at all? That's a difficult question to answer, and the best we can do is either say unborn children have no rights, or we draw a somewhat (but not completely) arbitrary line around the first or second trimester.
The debate is no less polarized among women because the two sides aren't really arguing the same issue.
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@No-Quarter good summation. Reckon most abortion participants were pro life before pro choice became the infinitely best solution to a, all things considered, pretty minor cock up.
I was.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
@antipodean well then there's no one left with a valid say. A caucus of women and their friends?
It's a discussion I leave entirely to women solely because I'll never have to make that decision. Personally I'm pro-choice because I recognise the reality of the situation. A dear friend of mine for a long time is very opposed to abortion and that's her choice. I respect it.. We don't discuss it. I get involved when men start insisting they can tell women what to do with their bodies.
I get involved precisely because abortion is women insisting they have the right to decide what they do with other peoples bodies. In this case use suction to break thier lImbs off causing great pain, and pull them out of a womb in pieces.
No women or wannabe white knight can make me shut up about the murder of an innocent young human. -
I completely forgot about this thread. Seems my position hasn't changed much in the last year and a bit.
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@No-Quarter good summation. Reckon most abortion participants were pro life before pro choice became the infinitely best solution to a, all things considered, pretty minor cock up.
I was.
I tend to think it really is a 'walk a mile in my shoes' type situation.
Many people are not 'pro abortion' but accept the need for 'pro choice' often through personal experience.
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A big issue I have currently is this #shoutyourabortion crowd. Almost seems to be an attempt at glamorising it or passing it off as just some medical procedure. Women I know who have been through it even a couple decades ago still can't talk about it without crying, that is some serious trauma that may not be adequately conveyed by a trusty woke society. As I said earlier abortion is a bad choice but people need to know the truth of as to how bad it is and then can fairly weigh that up with the alternative and decide the best option for them. It's amazing the amount of people that are completely oblivious to the procedure in the later term, if someone is for that legally then I think they should know exactly what they are for.