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@Billy-Webb The problem is that Scottish court sought to rely on quirky Scottish Law point whereas High Court ruling absolutely unequivocal: prorogation for political purposes is unquestionably lawful per se. The Scottish reasoning won't get out of starting stalls with Supreme Court.
In meantime, it IS ammo for Labour mud slinging.
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@Billy-Webb The problem is that Scottish court sought to rely on quirky Scottish Law point whereas High Court ruling absolutely unequivocal: prorogation for political purposes is unquestionably lawful per se. The Scottish reasoning won't get out of starting stalls with Supreme Court.
In meantime, it IS ammo for Labour mud slinging.
Not quite. The English court ruling was that it was a political matter and not one for the courts. A bit mealy mouthed really. Sounds like the Supreme Court shenanigans is getting interesting. Could still go either way but you’d assume they will find in favour of the Government.
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The UK Daily Telegraph may have become a shit paper, but it still has the best cartoonist in the business..
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Supreme Court ruling just in:
PM's Advice to Queen Was Void, Unlawful.
Prorogation was void and of no effect.
Parliament has not been prorogued.Huge ruling. Much more damaging to govt than was expected. House of Commons likely to be reconvened immediately. Big blow to Boris. Opposition will call for his resignation. Brexit gets even messier.
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@TeWaio I think that whatever the ruling (and this one surprised me a little) it was going to be a messy outcome, but you're right this is a mighty big spanner in the works.
Is Johnson's position now untenable? He's been shown to be a liar many times before and now he stands as being accused of lying to the Queen. Where now for BoJo?
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This is catastrophic for BoJo but recoverable, in my view. He should release a statement along the lines of
“Ever get the feeling the establishment is trying to prevent me from leading the UK out of Europe, which you voted for”
This just keeps going next level every single day!
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
This is catastrophic for BoJo but recoverable, in my view. He should release a statement along the lines of
“Ever get the feeling the establishment is trying to prevent me from leading the UK out of Europe, which you voted for”
I think you're right. It's very much the establishment vs the people. Win be interesting what his next move is.
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I'm not sure you're on the right track on this. The decision from the Supreme Court is about the prorogation of Parliament not Brexit. The Judges have been at pains to point this out all along. Allied to that is the fact that Boris has always stated that Prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit but was just the normal process. It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit. That would show him to be a, what's the word? Liar? His position has become very difficult. It all just adds to the mess. This really is the gift that keeps on giving.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
I'm not sure you're on the right track on this. The decision from the Supreme Court is about the prorogation of Parliament not Brexit. The Judges have been at pains to point this out all along. Allied to that is the fact that Boris has always stated that Prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit but was just the normal process. It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit. That would show him to be a, what's the word? Liar? His position has become very difficult. It all just adds to the mess. This really is the gift that keeps on giving.
I know I'm not on the right track. But le's face it .. this can easily be spun as just another delay.
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@Catogrande @MajorRage I reckon you're both right. It simultaneously isn't about Brexit, but will be spun as part of the "people vs parliament" narrative that BoJo is betting he can win an electoral majority with. It might even work, despite the poor optics of this for the Tories.
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The issue is that we're in a total mess with Brexit, it really should have been put to bed ages ago but has just got worse and worse. I can see why Boris was trying to ride roughshod over Parliamentary procedure but it was a high risk game plan and has come unstuck. It might just help him force an election and if so he'd likely win a majority, but will he get the Parliamentary support to call an election? It suits many in his own party and certainly those in Labour to let him handle the almighty fuck up that we have and watch him fuck it up further. Not very statesman-like and for sure putting party before country but I wouldn't put anything past the current rabble we have leading us.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit.
Quite the opposite, have the opposition actually thought through what they will be doing with the agenda now that parliament is sitting? They kicked the can down the road on Brexit... now what?
Boris will can (and I assume will) move various options to move the process forward which will all be voted down while in a holding pattern until mid October. It's not going to be a great look for the opposition.
Does this now bring into play the nuclear option for Boris to call a no confidence motion on himself and force the insurgents to back Corbyn or accept the election? The ideal timing is probably a few weeks off for that. But turning the spotlight on the opposition watching them try to form government for two weeks would be the ideal entree into an election campaign for the Conservatives.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit.
Quite the opposite, have the opposition actually thought through what they will be doing with the agenda now that parliament is sitting? They kicked the can down the road on Brexit... now what?
Boris will can (and I assume will) move various options to move the process forward which will all be voted down while in a holding pattern until mid October. It's not going to be a great look for the opposition.
Does this now bring into play the nuclear option for Boris to call a no confidence motion on himself and force the insurgents to back Corbyn or accept the election? The ideal timing is probably a few weeks off for that. But turning the spotlight on the opposition watching them try to form government for two weeks would be the ideal entree into an election campaign for the Conservatives.
Now what? has been the question for some time and I honestly cannot think what coherent plan either faction might have, nor who can truthfully claim the moral high ground. Parliament who are refusing to accede to the public will and thereby going against democracy or Boris who has tried to suspend democracy whilst looking like he is acceding to the public will.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@TeWaio I think that whatever the ruling (and this one surprised me a little) it was going to be a messy outcome, but you're right this is a mighty big spanner in the works.
Is Johnson's position now untenable? He's been shown to be a liar many times before and now he stands as being accused of lying to the Queen. Where now for BoJo?
I don't think the decision said that BJ lied. BTW the Pres of SC is a Remainer activist.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit.
Quite the opposite, have the opposition actually thought through what they will be doing with the agenda now that parliament is sitting? They kicked the can down the road on Brexit... now what?
Boris will can (and I assume will) move various options to move the process forward which will all be voted down while in a holding pattern until mid October. It's not going to be a great look for the opposition.
Does this now bring into play the nuclear option for Boris to call a no confidence motion on himself and force the insurgents to back Corbyn or accept the election? The ideal timing is probably a few weeks off for that. But turning the spotlight on the opposition watching them try to form government for two weeks would be the ideal entree into an election campaign for the Conservatives.
Now what? has been the question for some time and I honestly cannot think what coherent plan either faction might have, nor who can truthfully claim the moral high ground. Parliament who are refusing to accede to the public will and thereby going against democracy or Boris who has tried to suspend democracy whilst looking like he is acceding to the public will.
Parliament will be badly exposed when it resumes. Nothing worthwhile will occur and SC reasoning will be made mockery of. Extension will be conditioned on GE in December, so opposition need to find some coherence otherwise it's just more power to BJ's elbow.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@TeWaio I think that whatever the ruling (and this one surprised me a little) it was going to be a messy outcome, but you're right this is a mighty big spanner in the works.
Is Johnson's position now untenable? He's been shown to be a liar many times before and now he stands as being accused of lying to the Queen. Where now for BoJo?
I don't think the decision said that BJ lied. BTW the Pres of SC is a Remainer activist.
Hence my saying "stands as being accused of lying to the Queen". The actual finding was that he misled the Monarch, but we're dancing on the had of a pin here.
The Pres of the SC may well be a remainer but the verdict was unanimous. That's 11 Justices out of 11, damning Boris' actions. One being a remainer is not an issue.
Brexit