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Literally no one is saying don't travel or work abroad or immerse yourself in different cultures. They are saying hey, if you're going to go, sort it with the IRD first and meet your legal obligations. Not fucking hard or draconian.
It is in no way fair that the NZ govt stumps up for the education, then other govts get the benefit of the taxes and knowledge. Loans must be repaid. End of.
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@taniwharugby @Mokey You're both misunderstanding my point. The "handcuffing" point is entirely in relation to charging people who who choose to work overseas extortionate interest for that period, while allowing those who remain in NZ to benefit from zero rates.
That's a straight financial penalty for choosing to work overseas, and in my view, very bad policy.
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@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
because we are awesome
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@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
from 2005
Why are you keeping interest for students when they go overseas?
We want to encourage as many graduates as possible to stay in New Zealand. If
graduates are working here and making repayments on their loans, it is in our
interest to reward that.How will you ensure that graduates who are overseas will pay back their
loans?
There will be financial penalties for people who go overseas and do not make
payments. We are offering an amnesty on penalties to graduates who return to
NZ in 2006 or who enter into acceptable payment arrangements with IRD for
repayment. -
@voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.
Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...
In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.
As I said above, maybe give a period of garanteed interest free period, regardless of where you are, as long as you have made an arrangement to start paying back...
@mariner4life you are an exception!
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@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
I guess it comes down to whether the aim is to recoup the loan in the fastest amount of time, if they want to do that then making it easier for overseas based borrowers to pay it back is going to contribute to that.
Also, an alternate scenario is this, a mate of mine worked in NZ for 10 years after uni and paid his loan back ... he hasn't lived in NZ for 10 years now and will likely never move back. However, someone who heads overseas for 10 years to earn some cash, pays off their loan and interest, and then returns to NZ for the rest of their life is going to contribute more than my mate yet they "paid" more for their education than this bloke.
No one is saying to give overseas based loan holders a pass, just make it easier for them to pay back the money in the fastest time possible. The system is not currently geared towards that.
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@taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.
Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...
In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.
@mariner4life you are an exception!
i am exceptional. thank you
it's not that easy though is it. Not everyone that leaves does it for mercenary reasons. Some leave for a change in lifestyle. They then build new lives, and then suddenly they have too many roots down to just come back to NZ.
I can absolutely see @Mokey s point, even if she probably said it a tad harsher than i would. However, as with most things, it's not exactly black and white.
My point is more the interest rates on student loans have always been too high, and not to market. Also a 4 year degree is pretty fucking expensive when your parents make too much to allow you to get an allowance, but don't make enough to actually pay for any of your schooling/living.
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@Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:
@voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?
My point is stupid? Nice argument.
You realise that those that stay are also consuming right? That's why they pay tax?
Why on earth should somebody pay a PENALTY to work overseas? That's so small-minded, I'm just staggered.
What would you say to a hypothetical where a 40yr old professional couple with 2 kids get an opportunity to work in Singapore for 2 years. They'd love to go, but they really can't make the financials work because the government has a policy that your mortgage rate goes up by 8 full % points if you move.
Yeah that sounds fair. Explain to me why it's different?
I am all for proper penalties for those who decide not to pay their loans back. But charging someone a penalty for choosing to live overseas WHILST PAYING BACK THEIR LOAN is just daft and backwards.
We live in a mobile society, people don't want to be stuck in a certain country or city or environment. These sorts of attempts to force them just make no sense.
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@taniwharugby absolutely those foreigners would be here for lifestyle, as are those kiwis that do the same overseas in Britain and elsewhere. Why should either cohort be penalised?
As I said, I'm all for cracking down on non-payers, whether in NZ or offshore. Happy for ratcheting interest, penalties, travel restrictions etc whatever the law allows for defaulting borrowers of the government.
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@voodoo said in Student Loans:
Why on earth should somebody pay a PENALTY to work overseas? That's so small-minded, I'm just staggered.
At the time, Labour wanted graduates to stay in NZ. Presumably it's economic activity they want - but the only-in-NZ-no-interest was there from the start.
Personally, I'd have a happy medium of lower interest for student loans, and leave the rest alone. Something like 2-3% makes a massive difference to the cost, incentivises payback, but isn't as crippling as the 7-10% that floated about for a few years.
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@mariner4life it's IRD, they always make you pay more.
I wasnt suggesting people did leave for mercenary reasons...just saying if someone chooses to leave without making any arrangements to start paying thier debt, fuck em!
I have an older son who I have not been with his mother since he was 6 months old, when I left on my OE I set up a private arrangement with her to carry on making payments for child support, otherwise when I came home, I'd have been smashed with a huge bill...appreciate this is only slightly relevant, but I knew if I chose to do nothing, I'd have had a big bill when I came back, and to be naive enough to think who cares, I'll never come back...
@voodoo I went to the UK to make some coin as well (I met my wife there, so didnt make as much, but oh well) saved enough to have almost 50% deposit on a house...but yes, you go for the experience, but people do go to make money too.
I have no issues with them providing better options for those leaving NZ, but I think offering the 'best' (0% interest) option to those staying is definitely the way to go.
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It did sound like she actively engaged with them in the past but couldn't negotiate a plan. She was also self aware enough to know what was coming on social media. IRD seem to be more compassionate now whereas in the past they were way more cutthroat as my lil bro and some other mates found out. Even though they said a bunch of nice things.
I got stung by the interest while studying and it was (still is) utter bullshit to have it compounding as you studied.
I'm a bit on the fence about zero interest only if you are in NZ. I'd like to see a 2 year OE type zero or minimal interest for those overseas... not sure about how hard to go on those who leave never to return, or people who intend to come back but are away for years.
Ultimately we want those folks working in NZ, esp if they studied in skill shortage jobs. But it'd be good not to be utter heartless about it all. But bottom line is you borrowed the pingas, you pay it back.
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If we truly believe that tertiary educated people have some obligation to serve in NZ afterward, we really should take the loan piece out of the discussion. Why should it be different for a rich kid whose parents pay their way than for an average kid who has to borrow to study? Shouldn't everyone have to pay the same leaving penalty?
And for that matter, shouldn't the penalty also apply to high school grads, 13 years of free public education ain't cheap and must deserve some service?
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My wife and I got caught up in this and yes entirely our fault. These are just excuses but I didn't do enough to setup automatic payments, it was a bit of a mission to transfer the money to NZ via a third party site. We also had a mortgage and other costs and we didn't do enough to set aside money for the student loan. We were then getting stung the high interest rate of 7%, and then penalties start getting piled on if you didn't make the minimum payment. I think our original debt of 28k climbed to 100k, and the issue was we had been making some payments and were not really making much of a dent.
It got a little overwhelming tbh, when the law came re being arrested, I didn't want this to happen should one of my parents die. So I actually remortgaged the house and paid off the entire amount. The interest rate on the house was way lower than the student loan and penalties.
Overall a pretty shitty experience that was totally our own doing.
Pretty sure Australia does not charge any interest if you go overseas, the debt waits for you. Catch is I think it grows with inflation.
I am just happy to see NZ has gone back to cheaper Uni, would have helped me out for sure.
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Well I was one of those morons who took out a loan thinking it wasn't real, studied something mostly retarded, graduated never to work in the field of my study and shot off overseas to party it up with my head in the sand of the potential consequences.
Thankfully two things saved my ass 1) Poor family so got full student allowance 2) I set my old man with rights over my IRD account and he applied for a repayment holiday for me. By the time my head started to be screwed on better the damage wasn't too bad and I managed to finally knock it all off a couple years back.
I have some sympathy for highschool age retarded me. 17 is waaaay to young to be making incredibly expensive decisions on your life without decent guidance. We had a representative from Massey Uni come to discuss our options at highschool, the fuckhead sold me on a BA because it covered so many areas and would set me up. I had no other adult guidance so just bought it hook line and sinker.
I get to uni as barefoot long haired, Che wearing mongaloid reading the student paper, rubbing shoulders with like minded mongaloids in philosophy, psychology, sociology, politics, history etc and we were convinced that student loans were going to be wiped clean in a couple years. I believe it was a resurgent Alliance party that was pushing that at the time? I mean free tertiary education is a human right! Learning that gender is a social construct and that Marx was a swell guy was bound to make society a better place!
I can only imagine there will still be a significant cross-section of students in universities today who are in that same trap except it may even be worse to some degree with even more retarded courses than what I did with certain politicians and personalities thriving on student ignorance for their own benefit.
What I'd love to see is some sort of financial literacy being covered in highschool so at least 17 year olds without decent guidance might have a fighting chance...that's not to say I would have listened at the time but at least then I wouldn't have any sympathy now.
Student Loans