Coronavirus - Overall
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I don't disagree with the broad themes of the article, but calling the initial political reaction 'hysteria' is a little much.
As you said on another thread Antipodean I think Governments made the decisions they had to given the models/predictions that were being made by experts in March. But the question is if they now have the intestinal fortitude to wind some of those back based on the developments of the last week.
It was reported this afternoon that Morrison wants schools to go back at the start of Term 2, or at least by week 3. I think that would go a long way to helping achieve some sense of normality.
But you've got Dan Andrews who seems intent on keeping kids at home for the foreseeable future, and Anastacia who doesn't want the State of Origin played at all this year. Gladys has made some promising noises about rolling things back, but still seems set on keeping things as they are for a while yet.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Duluth said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Duluth said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Worth checking in on Sweden. Yes, the numbers are larger than their Scandinavian neighbours.
Actually the cases per million is not that different (so far)
Norway - 1,211 (cases per million)
Denmark - 1,091
Sweden - 1,084But you are a lot more likely to die in Sweden for some reason
Sweden - 91 (deaths per million)
Denmark - 49
Norway - 25Good graphs. Sweden has twice population of Norway and of Denmark. Norway closed borders early and followed NZ like strategy. But can't reopen borders as no herd immunity.
Sweden looks to me to be past peak. And has kept schools, pubs and restaurants open (table service only) so is shooting for herd immunity.
IMO Sweden will come out of this better.
Thank goodness someone tried this, otherwise we would have been stuck listening to the moronic argument that we were destined to be like Italy if we didn't shut down our entire economy
We did in the end and we are.
Pretty sure behind the doors the real strategy in the UK is herd immunity.
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@barbarian to be fair you've misquoted the author.
"Perhaps a hysteria has gripped the nation, at extraordinary cost, when weâre telling each other to take special care over a disease that in three months has killed about 60, in the main quite unwell elderly people."That's not an unreasonable opening sentence. Toilet paper was hysteria
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback so much this. My kids have been unbelievable considering the circumstances. 3 weeks with no one but their sibling. Everything cancelled. School camps. All sports. No friends.
I get the shits sometimes, but i have to realise, they are being pretty unreal, in ridiculous circumstances.
What you could do, is cut off the internet, de-tune the TV so that it's barely comprehensible, and order in some flared pants - and play "This is the '70s"!
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In the 70s they could play outside with their mates
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@mariner4life Not if they lived on a farm.
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Sob...
Coronavirus: Over 50 million pints of beer go to waste during lockdown
âThe beer had been sat there for two weeks so it had gone off,â he said. âThere was no easy way to do it so the beer was thrown down the drain. It was difficult to know what to do as I don't normally get wasted beer.ââIf lockdown lasts for three months all the beer in my cellar will go out of date. Beer kegs have a shelf life of not much more than three months while my other kegs will last for one month maximum.â
Disposal of beer must normally be overseen by a brewery representative because alcohol duty is not paid if it is thrown away with good reason, such as spoiling.
As a temporary measure HM Revenue & Customs is allowing breweries to appoint a publican to dispose of spoilt beer, with a video an acceptable form of proof.
The Campaign for Real Ale (Camra) estimates that of the 39,000 UK pubs and clubs with liquor licences, on average each has about 15 barrels in its cellar. With the average keg holding 88 pints this means around 51 million pints could be currently spoiling in cellars.
Tom Stainer, the chief executive of Camera, told the BBC: âItâs a very sad waste of all the work and talent that goes into producing great beer. People wonât get to drink it and all those resources have been used up for nothing.âKeris De Villiers, landlady of the Ram Inn, the Old Sergeant and the Pig and Whistle in Wandsworth, south-west London, told the BBC that barrelled beer worth about ÂŁ10,000 could go off in her cellars. A further 1,760 pints remain in vats at the SlyBeast microbrewery she set up with her husband, Lee.
With pubs closed drinkers have turned to supermarkets. Sales of alcohol increased by 22 per cent in the last month with an additional ÂŁ199 million spent on booze, according to the retail analysts Kanter.
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Unless you've been directly affected by Covid-19 - the death of a parent, sibling, spouse/partner, child - it's very easy to Monday Morning Quarterback the no-lockdown / partial lockdown / lockdown strategies.
As has been mentioned above, we're far better off finding solutions going forward than apportioning blame. There'll be plenty of time for that.
The 'game' isn't over, and as we used to see week-in week-out, if you don't play what's in front of you and adapt your gameplan then you will lose.
Rarely is victory determined in the first 10 minutes.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@shark said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Well, there's definitely a growing movement / school of thought around Labour having gone too hard, too soon.
I think they call at the time was a sound one- lock down our movements internally, try to eliminate community transmission. Basically buy us time. For that, I think the right call was made, no matter what data subsequently appears.
The right call was made no matter what data comes up subsequently? That is some serious dedication to the govt actions.
So can you justify moving to level 4, referencing the govt criteria?
If you turn the spotlight on my words, I'd probably characterise the lockdown as 'not the wrong call' in light of the information available at the time, and the uncertainty in our knowledge. In hindsight it's easy to criticise, but I can understand making a call where the downside risk is that we get uncontrolled spreading in our community and significant numbers of deaths. My point above is that it's the next steps that then matter- as more information becomes available, do we change our response in light of what's working elsewhere, and balance the risk at the time.
You clearly don't read my posts if you think I've got serious dedication to Govt actions. However, I don't automatically think that everything they do is wrong. Making a call like a lockdown is a tough one, but has to be considered in light of the info put in front of them at the time, and the risk profile that was apparent at that point in time. Otherwise monday morning quarterbacking that isn't fair on decision makers, because we always have more data and time to consider.
I have to agree that when in doubt assume the worst and hope for the best. Whether that means Level 3 or 4 is too hard to have an informed view on from UK. BUT that is now water under the bridge. The onus must be for NZ from here to go to minimal lockdown ASAP.
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@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@shark Good post, but sadly I think the backlash will be minimal because the media has totally bought into the lockdown, and convinced most people that blind acceptance of govt control is a virtue.
I have stated for quite awhile that the govt panicked, it basically skipped stage 3, and went straight to 4. If you look at the criteria , we should never have left 3I don't really agree. I don't think the media has a lot of sway with the general population. Most people that actually vote don't appear to pay them much mind.
The election before last they were fiercely critical of Key and if you went by social media, his days were numbered and a change in government was coming. He won the election in an absolute fucking landslide.
Last election it was all Jacindamania leading into it, gushing story after gushing story. At the end of the day English absolutely smashed her, it was only an unexpected unholy alliance between a far left and far right party that got them over the line.
If people don't think this was handled well, IMO no amount of media propaganda is going to help them when it comes to the next election.
Interesting that it's reported today in the UK media that the general populace in surveys has indicated it will resist going back to work until the Government can convince it that 'it's safe' to do so. Even though most of them weren't at significant risk in the first place!
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@JC said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Sob...
Coronavirus: Over 50 million pints of beer go to waste during lockdown
âThe beer had been sat there for two weeks so it had gone off,â he said. âThere was no easy way to do it so the beer was thrown down the drain. It was difficult to know what to do as I don't normally get wasted beer.ââIf lockdown lasts for three months all the beer in my cellar will go out of date. Beer kegs have a shelf life of not much more than three months while my other kegs will last for one month maximum.â
Disposal of beer must normally be overseen by a brewery representative because alcohol duty is not paid if it is thrown away with good reason, such as spoiling.
As a temporary measure HM Revenue & Customs is allowing breweries to appoint a publican to dispose of spoilt beer, with a video an acceptable form of proof.
The Campaign for Real Ale (Camra) estimates that of the 39,000 UK pubs and clubs with liquor licences, on average each has about 15 barrels in its cellar. With the average keg holding 88 pints this means around 51 million pints could be currently spoiling in cellars.
Tom Stainer, the chief executive of Camera, told the BBC: âItâs a very sad waste of all the work and talent that goes into producing great beer. People wonât get to drink it and all those resources have been used up for nothing.âKeris De Villiers, landlady of the Ram Inn, the Old Sergeant and the Pig and Whistle in Wandsworth, south-west London, told the BBC that barrelled beer worth about ÂŁ10,000 could go off in her cellars. A further 1,760 pints remain in vats at the SlyBeast microbrewery she set up with her husband, Lee.
With pubs closed drinkers have turned to supermarkets. Sales of alcohol increased by 22 per cent in the last month with an additional ÂŁ199 million spent on booze, according to the retail analysts Kanter.
My son drinks at the Old Sergeant -- or rather used to.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Unless you've been directly affected by Covid-19 - the death of a parent, sibling, spouse/partner, child - it's very easy to Monday Morning Quarterback the no-lockdown / partial lockdown / lockdown strategies.
As has been mentioned above, we're far better off finding solutions going forward than apportioning blame. There'll be plenty of time for that.
The 'game' isn't over, and as we used to see week-in week-out, if you don't play what's in front of you and adapt your gameplan then you will lose.
Rarely is victory determined in the first 10 minutes.
Indeed. My mother is 59 but is a leukemia survivor (5 years ago) and some other health issues. I would probably not be heavily affected by CV19 but could easily see it killing my mother in a way the flu has never looked like doing and one of us kids could conceivably give it to her with no way of knowing we had it.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Unless you've been directly affected by Covid-19 - the death of a parent, sibling, spouse/partner, child - it's very easy to Monday Morning Quarterback the no-lockdown / partial lockdown / lockdown strategies.
As has been mentioned above, we're far better off finding solutions going forward than apportioning blame. There'll be plenty of time for that.
The 'game' isn't over, and as we used to see week-in week-out, if you don't play what's in front of you and adapt your gameplan then you will lose.
Rarely is victory determined in the first 10 minutes.
Indeed. My mother is 59 but is a leukemia survivor (5 years ago) and some other health issues. I would probably not be heavily affected by CV19 but could easily see it killing my mother in a way the flu has never looked like doing and one of us kids could conceivably give it to her with no way of knowing we had it.
Pardon me for saying, but aren't you, ahem, rather young for the Fern?
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Unless you've been directly affected by Covid-19 - the death of a parent, sibling, spouse/partner, child - it's very easy to Monday Morning Quarterback the no-lockdown / partial lockdown / lockdown strategies.
As has been mentioned above, we're far better off finding solutions going forward than apportioning blame. There'll be plenty of time for that.
The 'game' isn't over, and as we used to see week-in week-out, if you don't play what's in front of you and adapt your gameplan then you will lose.
Rarely is victory determined in the first 10 minutes.
Indeed. My mother is 59 but is a leukemia survivor (5 years ago) and some other health issues. I would probably not be heavily affected by CV19 but could easily see it killing my mother in a way the flu has never looked like doing and one of us kids could conceivably give it to her with no way of knowing we had it.
Pardon me for saying, but aren't you, ahem, rather young for the Fern?
Probably, turned 40 last year.
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Unless you've been directly affected by Covid-19 - the death of a parent, sibling, spouse/partner, child - it's very easy to Monday Morning Quarterback the no-lockdown / partial lockdown / lockdown strategies.
As has been mentioned above, we're far better off finding solutions going forward than apportioning blame. There'll be plenty of time for that.
The 'game' isn't over, and as we used to see week-in week-out, if you don't play what's in front of you and adapt your gameplan then you will lose.
Rarely is victory determined in the first 10 minutes.
Indeed. My mother is 59 but is a leukemia survivor (5 years ago) and some other health issues. I would probably not be heavily affected by CV19 but could easily see it killing my mother in a way the flu has never looked like doing and one of us kids could conceivably give it to her with no way of knowing we had it.
Pardon me for saying, but aren't you, ahem, rather young for the Fern?
Seems the glove is on the other foot fella....
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Pretty sure behind the doors the real strategy in the UK is herd immunity.
That's the only medium-long term solution really. Lockdowns are being used to control/stretch out the spread of the virus to endure medical services aren't being over-run and protect the really vulnerable groups.
Mass vaccination is simply herd immunity under another name. And even with the Flu vaccine, 17,000 people due of Flu every year in the UK.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Pretty sure behind the doors the real strategy in the UK is herd immunity.
That's the only medium-long term solution really. Lockdowns are being used to control/stretch out the spread of the virus to endure medical services aren't being over-run and protect the really vulnerable groups.
Mass vaccination is simply herd immunity under another name. And even with the Flu vaccine, 17,000 people due of Flu every year in the UK.
i guess thats the NZ fear. Shut it down, eradicate it ... but then how can you ever reopen it?