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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
It does amaze me though that the country the western world has upheld as the protector of democracy has such piss poor voting systems.
When you look at a system such as we have in NZ where you have to be enrolled by proving your right to vote then have a number of ways to have your vote taken you wonder why it is that difficult.The only excuse they could muster is that compared to NZ they are huge. Change is difficult. But they should have fixed this a long time ago
You'd think that a Federal election would require a Federal approach and standards.
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@barbarian said in US Politics:
Not to mention the whole electoral set-up. Some of the gerrymandering in local districts boggles the mind.
The solution is so simple, an independent body to set electoral boundaries and manage elections. Ensures integrity at every step of the process, and as a result there's complete confidence in results.
Of course as soon as they suggested something like that half the country's heads would explode on the assumption there was some conspiracy behind it. The default seems to be that every proposal is founded with bad intent and unfortunately the bad faith that many of the political actors bring doesn't help with that perception.
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@JC said in US Politics:
Yeah, why would anybody want eligible voters to be able to actually cast a vote? Maybe, as @Crucial said, they want to ensure that just in case people are confined to their homes they are still able to vote. Fuck, it's almost as if people were planning or something. I can see why you would be suspicious of that. They should definitely "wing" it instead.
This is bullshit. That the democrats are using when it has nil merit.
At present voting must be in-person otherwise the chance of manipulation is too high. There is nil reason why the majority can't vote in person (if they can't be bothered spending a few minutes voting in person then tough luck). An exception for those that can't is made (for example overseas) and could be for this election to include a small number of older or vulnerable people because of the flu. But it must be small % of the total. (And a clear audit trail of the reason why the person can't vote in-person. For example restricted to their home). Then if there is manipulation it will stand out
The democrats are just a little too keen to move to mail in voting. For bullshit reasons. I wonder why?
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
It does amaze me though that the country the western world has upheld as the protector of democracy has such piss poor voting systems.
When you look at a system such as we have in NZ where you have to be enrolled by proving your right to vote then have a number of ways to have your vote taken you wonder why it is that difficult.The only excuse they could muster is that compared to NZ they are huge. Change is difficult. But they should have fixed this a long time ago
You'd think that a Federal election would require a Federal approach and standards.
Considering how long people usually have to wait to cast votes, it will be a mammoth task when you consider social distancing as well
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
It does amaze me though that the country the western world has upheld as the protector of democracy has such piss poor voting systems.
When you look at a system such as we have in NZ where you have to be enrolled by proving your right to vote then have a number of ways to have your vote taken you wonder why it is that difficult.The only excuse they could muster is that compared to NZ they are huge. Change is difficult. But they should have fixed this a long time ago
You'd think that a Federal election would require a Federal approach and standards.
Considering how long people usually have to wait to cast votes, it will be a mammoth task when you consider social distancing as well
One of the reasons that I find it strange that @winger was concerned about Democrat mail in fraud is that mail in voting has been forced on some under the guise of coronavirus distancing with polling place numbers slashed in some southern states. eg Louisville, Kentucky now has one polling booth for 750k voters.
You can't close people out of voting physically then complain that you don't like mail voting!
Well you can I guess if you want to deliberately disenfranchise areas and voters you don't like..The whole election is going to be fraught with conflict and could get very ugly before, during and after.
Polling queues, mask wearing, distancing, allegations of fraud, recounts, signature checking.....endless avenues for all to complain and look for trouble.The voting access question has been simmering for a while now and further closures under the cover of coronovirus could be a catalyst for trouble if many can't cast their votes.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
Yeah, why would anybody want eligible voters to be able to actually cast a vote? Maybe, as @Crucial said, they want to ensure that just in case people are confined to their homes they are still able to vote. Fuck, it's almost as if people were planning or something. I can see why you would be suspicious of that. They should definitely "wing" it instead.
This is bullshit. That the democrats are using when it has nil merit.
At present voting must be in-person
No. No it doesn't. Not even close:
"In the 2016 US Presidential election, approximately 33 million ballots were cast via mailed out ballots (about a quarter of all ballots cast)"
Do you honestly expect people to take what you say seriously when you spout nonsense like this?
otherwise the chance of manipulation is too high. There is nil reason why the majority can't vote in person (if they can't be bothered spending a few minutes voting in person then tough luck). An exception for those that can't is made (for example overseas) and could be for this election to include a small number of older or vulnerable people because of the flu. But it must be small % of the total. (And a clear audit trail of the reason why the person can't vote in-person. For example restricted to their home). Then if there is manipulation it will stand out
Can you not tell the difference between what you want to be and what actually is? You say this stuff as if it is unchallengeable fact rather than just your take on it. You can't just pretend that your description of your ideal state is the way things actually work now and then straw man that into the Democrats plotting to change from that to something that actually does already exist. That's fucking delusional.
The democrats are just a little too keen to move to mail in voting. For bullshit reasons. I wonder why?
No, you don't wonder why. You have already decided why, and nothing will shake you from it. You are immune to logic or counterargument. I should know better than to engage with you, it's like trying to reason with a Jersey cow.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
One of the reasons that I find it strange that @winger was concerned about Democrat mail in fraud is that mail in voting has been forced on some under the guise of coronavirus distancing with polling place numbers slashed in some southern states. eg Louisville, Kentucky now has one polling booth for 750k voters.
If some states can't run a proper election (using the virus as an excuse) based on in person voting. Then say the military should step in and take over. Trump and the Republicans should insist on this. If need be the election should be postponed until the structure is set up for a fair and verifiable election. Where only qualified voters vote.
The loony (Marxist) left will use any excuse to rig an election and Trump and team must be very firm (using firm steps if necessary) to ensure they don't get away with it. As the left would do if the situation was reversed.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
One of the reasons that I find it strange that @winger was concerned about Democrat mail in fraud is that mail in voting has been forced on some under the guise of coronavirus distancing with polling place numbers slashed in some southern states. eg Louisville, Kentucky now has one polling booth for 750k voters.
If some states can't run a proper election (using the virus as an excuse) based on in person voting. Then say the military should step in and take over. Trump and the Republicans should insist on this. If need be the election should be postponed until the structure is set up for a fair and verifiable election.
The loony (Marxist) left will use any excuse to rig an election and Trump and team must b very firm to ensure they don't get away with it. As the left would do if the situation was reversed.
Clearly you don't remember what happened in Florida when Jeb gerrymandered the election in favour of his brother..... you come up with some funny stuff when talking about the side you don't back
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
One of the reasons that I find it strange that @winger was concerned about Democrat mail in fraud is that mail in voting has been forced on some under the guise of coronavirus distancing with polling place numbers slashed in some southern states. eg Louisville, Kentucky now has one polling booth for 750k voters.
If some states can't run a proper election (using the virus as an excuse) based on in person voting. Then say the military should step in and take over. Trump and the Republicans should insist on this. If need be the election should be postponed until the structure is set up for a fair and verifiable election.
The loony (Marxist) left will use any excuse to rig an election and Trump and team must b very firm to ensure they don't get away with it. As the left would do if the situation was reversed.
Clearly you don't remember what happened in Florida when Jeb gerrymandered the election in favour of his brother..... you come up with some funny stuff when talking about the side you don't back
So you accept that elections can be rigged. All I want (and Trump seems to want as well) is a fair and honest election. Where only qualified voters vote. And a voting system to ensure this happens. If in this situation Trump loses (although this is very unlikely) then so be it
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
One of the reasons that I find it strange that @winger was concerned about Democrat mail in fraud is that mail in voting has been forced on some under the guise of coronavirus distancing with polling place numbers slashed in some southern states. eg Louisville, Kentucky now has one polling booth for 750k voters.
If some states can't run a proper election (using the virus as an excuse) based on in person voting. Then say the military should step in and take over. Trump and the Republicans should insist on this. If need be the election should be postponed until the structure is set up for a fair and verifiable election. Where only qualified voters vote.
The loony (Marxist) left will use any excuse to rig an election and Trump and team must be very firm (using firm steps if necessary) to ensure they don't get away with it. As the left would do if the situation was reversed.
No, the military should never “take over”, ever, it is illegal. No, the election shouldn’t be postponed, because that is illegal. No, Trump shouldn’t be very firm, whatever that means. He should stay out of the electoral process except in his capacity as a private citizen who is a candidate.
Surely you must know that the President plays no role at all in the running of elections, as is the case in every proper democracy in the world, and for very good reason.
The irony of you claiming the Democrats are shady in the same paragraph where you propose a Bainimarama-style junta.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
It's like Florida 2000 never happened
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
I’d say baffling.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
I’d say baffling.
I was being facetious
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
I’d say baffling.
I was being facetious
Nuance isn’t a strong suit in this game
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
I’d say baffling.
I was being facetious
Nuance isn’t a strong suit in this game
Or reason
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
I’m cracking up at @Winger s posts about what Trump should do to ensure fairness when the problem is that GOP states are reducing the amount of places to vote in areas where Dem voting is strong.
The left want to rig this election. How do I know. They always accuse others of doing what they plan to do (or have done or are doing). One example
Brilliant logic
I’d say baffling.
I was being facetious
Nuance isn’t a strong suit in this game
Or reason
Or sanity
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Trumps claim is that there's a difference between absentee voting and vote-by-mail. I haven't studied this in any depth so will withdraw. And will only come back if have time to.
Experts often distinguish between “absentee voting” and “vote-by-mail,” and even though the voting methods are similar, the terminology can be different. In “absentee” systems, voters must pro-actively request a ballot, and sometimes need an excuse. “Voting by mail” refers to states with universal mail voting, where each registered voter is automatically sent a ballot for each election.
US Politics