Coronavirus - Australia
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@barbarian the curfew does seem draconian. The only justification I can see is the Police asking for it because otherwise it is too hard for them to enforce lockdown, but if people are going to ignore the rules they'll do it at any time.
The Victorian govt seem to have prevaricated. What did they do to get systems ready in the 8 weeks when it was all going swimmingly. Then they went into a series of half-assed lockdowns that seem to me illogical.
It must be awful for businesses and the general public to have this whole thing drag on and on. I don't know the NZ population would be any more compliant if we had to go back into lockdown. Once yeah but repeatedly. Not so sure about that.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
all you filthy mexicans need to sort your shit out, collectively
Thank God we no longer have to worry about a Google algorithm monitoring our posts...
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So apparently Victoria records 429:
While 429 would have been a record a fortnight ago, it is significantly below Thursday’s record of 723, as well as 627 on Friday and 671 on Sunday. It also brings Sunday’s record seven-day average of 518 down to 504. Premier Daniel Andrews is due to address the media later today regarding the shutdown of certain businesses and workplaces.
Hardly exponential increase is it?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian the curfew does seem draconian. The only justification I can see is the Police asking for it because otherwise it is too hard for them to enforce lockdown, but if people are going to ignore the rules they'll do it at any time.
The Victorian govt seem to have prevaricated. What did they do to get systems ready in the 8 weeks when it was all going swimmingly. Then they went into a series of half-assed lockdowns that seem to me illogical.
And I'm not a 'let her rip' guy, but there are only 40 people in ICU at the moment with the virus. I'm unsure of the State's overall ICU capacity, but it would be in the hundreds. People are dying but it's very old people at the rate of about 7 a day.
Now this will obviously get a bit worse, but as it stands Victoria are still a long way from the UK or USA or Italy. And yet they've taken such a heavy approach to the situation. It's important to get on top of the virus, but a curfew is something I can't get on board with given the exact nature of what's happening there.
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@barbarian we dont want to get as bad as the UK and Us though...you dont wait for things to start growing exponentially before you do something...the fact the trend is still growing suggests the current restrictions arent enough...or i guess they would have been if everyone followed them...but they didn't...and so now we need stronger ones to try and make up for that
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@Kiwiwomble I understand that, but growth is by no means exponential.
And I'm not against extra measures per se, but I need to see evidence as to why they will make a difference. If I'm sacrificing something (and the ability to go out after 8pm is a pretty big something) then I want to know it is going to help.
I think the severity of the situation does not yet warrant such harsh restrictions on the population.
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@barbarian no one said it is exponential...if it was it would be almost out of control
the current restrictions have at best stopped it going exponential...do we think it will go from pretty steady growth to steady decline overnight? they waited 4.5 weeks so gave them a good chance to get it under control...something had to be done
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@Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
the current restrictions have at best stopped it going exponential...do we think it will go from pretty steady growth to steady decline overnight? they waited 4.5 weeks so gave them a good chance to get it under control...something had to be done
Yes but again I don't dispute the need for action, I dispute the need for this specific action. I am just not sure why a curfew is required at this point with things as they are.
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look i cant really argue, im not an expert in this stuff, maybe having to go through it is just making more resigned, the reality is there is little we can do other than
- trust the "experts"/authorities
- ignore / protest or similar
I resign myself to the first because i know i wont be making things worse...where as i cant say that if i do the later
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
the current restrictions have at best stopped it going exponential...do we think it will go from pretty steady growth to steady decline overnight? they waited 4.5 weeks so gave them a good chance to get it under control...something had to be done
Yes but again I don't dispute the need for action, I dispute the need for this specific action. I am just not sure why a curfew is required at this point with things as they are.
My sister lives in Melbourne and says that in her experience people are being less compliant than last time. Maybe this is the response to that. If they wanted to stamp CV19 out as soon as they realised it was all on again, why did they not go hard early? They've wasted time in halfway house L3 now they will lockdown anyway
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
the current restrictions have at best stopped it going exponential...do we think it will go from pretty steady growth to steady decline overnight? they waited 4.5 weeks so gave them a good chance to get it under control...something had to be done
Yes but again I don't dispute the need for action, I dispute the need for this specific action. I am just not sure why a curfew is required at this point with things as they are.
My sister lives in Melbourne and says that in her experience people are being less compliant than last time. Maybe this is the response to that. If they wanted to stamp CV19 out as soon as they realised it was all on again, why did they not go hard early? They've wasted time in halfway house L3 now they will lockdown anyway
agreed, lvl 3 lockdown "worked" first time other than the quarantine hotels so fair enough on that
this time round the numbers were already looking like exceeding the first time, should have gone hard
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@raznomore said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@canefan Yip my sister in law lives in Melbourne and she's saying the same. She has friends between the ages of 30 and 50 who are routinely flouting the social distancing rules. Parties, get-togethers, etc.
No less than you would expect from'Straya, the Amurica of Oceania....
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
My sister lives in Melbourne and says that in her experience people are being less compliant than last time. Maybe this is the response to that. If they wanted to stamp CV19 out as soon as they realised it was all on again, why did they not go hard early? They've wasted time in halfway house L3 now they will lockdown anyway
Easy to say in hindsight. Governments should be doing enough to halt the spread of the virus, but without going so far you cause unnecessary hardship/job loss/mental health damage etc. It's a delicate balance.
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This denying civil liberties thing is a slippery slope, I'll admit. But it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If there is no coloration between night time activities and increased virus cases then it's totalitarian governing. If a curfew somehow slows the rate of infection the public will ask why this was not something that ws implemented sooner.
Do people who have an issue with the curfew, actually really have an issue with a curfew. Are you needing to out and about on cold VIC nights or just wanting to be should the want arise? Or is it a principles thing?
At this point so long as it's not extermination or abject subjugation shouldn't we just see where this goes?
It's very easy for me to ask this without being in the situation myself, of course.
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
My sister lives in Melbourne and says that in her experience people are being less compliant than last time. Maybe this is the response to that. If they wanted to stamp CV19 out as soon as they realised it was all on again, why did they not go hard early? They've wasted time in halfway house L3 now they will lockdown anyway
Easy to say in hindsight. Governments should be doing enough to halt the spread of the virus, but without going so far you cause unnecessary hardship/job loss/mental health damage etc. It's a delicate balance.
I'd favour a shorter sharper lockdown than the drawn out one they've had. Rip the band aid off quick
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On the curfew, who is really out past 8pm if observing lockdown? When NSW had its partial lockdown no one I knew was going out anywhere in the evening anyway. Granted I'm a middle aged dude so maybe the youngins are all heading out everywhere.
But, as we've seen time and time again since Covid kicked off people just can't be trusted to do the right thing, there's too many self centred twats out there.
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:
My sister lives in Melbourne and says that in her experience people are being less compliant than last time. Maybe this is the response to that. If they wanted to stamp CV19 out as soon as they realised it was all on again, why did they not go hard early? They've wasted time in halfway house L3 now they will lockdown anyway
Easy to say in hindsight. Governments should be doing enough to halt the spread of the virus, but without going so far you cause unnecessary hardship/job loss/mental health damage etc. It's a delicate balance.
I'd favour a shorter sharper lockdown than the drawn out one they've had. Rip the band aid off quick
Victoria is basically having the NZ version now after having the Oz version earlier in the year. I actually find it baffling people in Melbourne are being less compliant, most of my work colleagues down there know someone who has tested positive.
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@raznomore said in Coronavirus - Australia:
This denying civil liberties thing is a slippery slope, I'll admit. But it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If there is no coloration between night time activities and increased virus cases then it's totalitarian governing. If a curfew somehow slows the rate of infection the public will ask why this was not something that ws implemented sooner.
Do people who have an issue with the curfew, actually really have an issue with a curfew. Are you needing to out and about on cold VIC nights or just wanting to be should the want arise? Or is it a principles thing?
At this point so long as it's not extermination or abject subjugation shouldn't we just see where this goes?
It's very easy for me to ask this without being in the situation myself, of course.
no one ive talked to this morning has had a problem, all similar to me, "we were supposed to be out on the piss anyway", worse case was a mate thats a famous night owl, he said he couldn't go out for a run at 11pm as he sometimes did previously...but he also said he'd had more time during the day to nip out so hadn't really been running late much since COVID started