Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's always interesting watching how these debates pan out.
The optimism and faith of @Hooroo versing the cynicism and doubt of @Kirwan ?
It is likely that somewhere in between lies the best answer.
I'm a cynic of course so that is where it lies for me.
My starting point is we have a Prime Minister that unironically uses the word comrade.
That doesn't scare me in the slightest
It probably should given the history. Try using the word "Nigger" too.
Ultimately they are only words but they do have historical significance.
What history?
Communist history, comrade. It hasn't ended well as a rule.
We're not going to become Commies.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's always interesting watching how these debates pan out.
The optimism and faith of @Hooroo versing the cynicism and doubt of @Kirwan ?
It is likely that somewhere in between lies the best answer.
I'm a cynic of course so that is where it lies for me.
My starting point is we have a Prime Minister that unironically uses the word comrade.
That doesn't scare me in the slightest
It probably should given the history. Try using the word "Nigger" too.
Ultimately they are only words but they do have historical significance.
What history?
Communist history, comrade. It hasn't ended well as a rule.
We're not going to become Commies.
Never said we were, just a really poor choice of words given the history.
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's always interesting watching how these debates pan out.
The optimism and faith of @Hooroo versing the cynicism and doubt of @Kirwan ?
It is likely that somewhere in between lies the best answer.
I'm a cynic of course so that is where it lies for me.
My starting point is we have a Prime Minister that unironically uses the word comrade.
That doesn't scare me in the slightest
It probably should given the history. Try using the word "Nigger" too.
Ultimately they are only words but they do have historical significance.
What history?
Communist history, comrade. It hasn't ended well as a rule.
We're not going to become Commies.
Never said we were, just a poor choice of words.
Ah ok, I get you point now, but I don't really think comrade is as an analogous to the N word as you're making out.
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess heβs referring to this:
I'm thinking we have moved on as a species since then
Plenty of examples suggesting otherwise.
Just from the article:
Prof Parry also suggested it could be enabled into buildings as well.
"You could increase the surveillance if you're looking at the workplace or health environment for example where you'd actually routinely take the data off the card - assuming people are happy with that in terms of privacy - and then that'd give you a model of what was happening.
"So that even before people have symptoms you've got an idea of where they're meeting and what sort of numbers people are meeting so you can be ready to intervene if you think there's a problem."
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess heβs referring to this:
I'm thinking we have moved on as a species since then
Plenty of examples suggesting otherwise.
Just from the article:
Prof Parry also suggested it could be enabled into buildings as well.
"You could increase the surveillance if you're looking at the workplace or health environment for example where you'd actually routinely take the data off the card - assuming people are happy with that in terms of privacy - and then that'd give you a model of what was happening.
"So that even before people have symptoms you've got an idea of where they're meeting and what sort of numbers people are meeting so you can be ready to intervene if you think there's a problem."
Very small step from that is tracking people that meet people with a criminal record. It's a terrible idea.
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@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Don't tell @Frank that, he'll deadest have a panic attack!
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo
I think implanted microchips are the easier way to go.
Won't forget it, small........A lot frightens you, doesn't it
Huh? That was the joke.
Mocking those who think Bill Gates is trying to implant microchips in all of us or whatever conspiracy theory is currently floating around. -
@NTA said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I might have to make my sarcasm more clear.
I find those conspiracy theories ridiculous.
Wonder if a couple of people thought I believed that because I express support for Trump??
Not everyone fits into neat little boxes of clearly defined opinions. -
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Now I know what a woman feels like having stuff mansplained to them
I've been in the IT industry for near on 30 years. In the last 15 years working with police departments (eg NYPD, Chicago PD, New Orleans) and State Departments, Inspector Generals, etc, locally the IRD, among others. I'm well aware of what they can and do track, it's part of why more consolidation of data like this is extremely worrying to me.
And you being happy to sign away your independence is effectively signing it away for people not happy to. With enough people, they can track the people not participating. And once a government has that capability we will be hard pressed to roll it back. Can't see National rolling it back, both parties would use it (first justified with the pandemic, then law and order, then it's just the new normal).
It's facinating to watch how many people blindly trust people in power to do the right thing. Just look at how many scandals in the last few years from both major parties.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Now I know what a woman feels like having stuff mansplained to them
I've been in the IT industry for near on 30 years. In the last 15 years working with police departments (eg NYPD, Chicago PD, New Orleans) and State Departments, Inspector Generals, etc, locally the IRD, among others. I'm well aware of what they can and do track, it's part of why more consolidation of data like this is extremely worrying to me.
And you being happy to sign away your independence is effectively signing it away for people not happy to. With enough people, they can track the people not participating. And once a government has that capability we will be hard pressed to roll it back. Can't see National rolling it back, both parties would use it (first justified with the pandemic, then law and order, then it's just the new normal).
It's facinating to watch how many people blindly trust people in power to do the right thing. Just look at how many scandals in the last few years from both major parties.
It's not blind trust. I don't trust any politician. Not one. I may even try and become one.
It's just that I don't have a problem with what is proposed at the moment