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@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Don't tell @Frank that, he'll deadest have a panic attack!
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo
I think implanted microchips are the easier way to go.
Won't forget it, small........A lot frightens you, doesn't it
Huh? That was the joke.
Mocking those who think Bill Gates is trying to implant microchips in all of us or whatever conspiracy theory is currently floating around. -
@NTA said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I might have to make my sarcasm more clear.
I find those conspiracy theories ridiculous.
Wonder if a couple of people thought I believed that because I express support for Trump??
Not everyone fits into neat little boxes of clearly defined opinions. -
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Now I know what a woman feels like having stuff mansplained to them
I've been in the IT industry for near on 30 years. In the last 15 years working with police departments (eg NYPD, Chicago PD, New Orleans) and State Departments, Inspector Generals, etc, locally the IRD, among others. I'm well aware of what they can and do track, it's part of why more consolidation of data like this is extremely worrying to me.
And you being happy to sign away your independence is effectively signing it away for people not happy to. With enough people, they can track the people not participating. And once a government has that capability we will be hard pressed to roll it back. Can't see National rolling it back, both parties would use it (first justified with the pandemic, then law and order, then it's just the new normal).
It's facinating to watch how many people blindly trust people in power to do the right thing. Just look at how many scandals in the last few years from both major parties.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan We could do all of that now if we wanted to put the resource into it. How many times today do you think you have been caught on camera? You live in Akl right. So every traffic light, every 250 metres on the motorway plus police cameras, private CCTV....
and that's before we talk about online surveillance.
I had a meeting with a DHB this morning. They are totally convinced we will get a second wave in NZ. Merely a matter of time. They said that they are however, way better prepared than they were back in March and that if contact tracing works there should be no need to go back into lockdown as long as we can stamp out any contagion quickly.
So frankly, while I understand your misgivings I will happily sign away a bit of my individual independence (short term) in order to prevent us going back to even Lvl 2. If everyone would use the QR codes it wouldn't be necessary - but they aren't - so it is.
Now I know what a woman feels like having stuff mansplained to them
I've been in the IT industry for near on 30 years. In the last 15 years working with police departments (eg NYPD, Chicago PD, New Orleans) and State Departments, Inspector Generals, etc, locally the IRD, among others. I'm well aware of what they can and do track, it's part of why more consolidation of data like this is extremely worrying to me.
And you being happy to sign away your independence is effectively signing it away for people not happy to. With enough people, they can track the people not participating. And once a government has that capability we will be hard pressed to roll it back. Can't see National rolling it back, both parties would use it (first justified with the pandemic, then law and order, then it's just the new normal).
It's facinating to watch how many people blindly trust people in power to do the right thing. Just look at how many scandals in the last few years from both major parties.
It's not blind trust. I don't trust any politician. Not one. I may even try and become one.
It's just that I don't have a problem with what is proposed at the moment
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I know it's not the Fern way... but did anybody actually read anything about that contact-tracing card trial?
They're not proposing that it be compulsory... in fact, the whole point of the trial is to see how many people will actually bother taking them out'n'about. It's effectively a technical solution to just making the COVID-contact-tracing sign-ins/etc easier for people.
Sure - conspiracists can ask "but this is just the first step to it becoming compulsory..." - and sure, if you're a nutcase - it could be. But in reality it's just making an alternative to one/any/all of the OPTIONAL contact-tracing apps available, and one that doesn't require any manual step each time one goes anywhere. -
@Kruse said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I know it's not the Fern way... but did anybody actually read anything about that contact-tracing card trial?
They're not proposing that it be compulsory... in fact, the whole point of the trial is to see how many people will actually bother taking them out'n'about. It's effectively a technical solution to just making the COVID-contact-tracing sign-ins/etc easier for people.
Sure - conspiracists can ask "but this is just the first step to it becoming compulsory..." - and sure, if you're a nutcase - it could be. But in reality it's just making an alternative to one/any/all of the OPTIONAL contact-tracing apps available, and one that doesn't require any manual step each time one goes anywhere.Covid tracing apps/ cards requires the majority of the population otherwise it doesn't work, so opt-in trials are always predecessors to making something compulsory. If it doesn't work, they'll dump it and look for something with better efficacy.
If you have a range of tools, then to make them satisfactory, they require cross-referencing.
I've worked on enough government programmes to be aware of the capability to conduct data matching to be wary when it's an explicit aim to identify when, where and who you come into contact with.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I've been in the IT industry for near on 30 years.
You're older than I thought you were
I started when I was 17. Been working in IT for 30 years around October next year. Fuck.
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This conversation reminded me of this comic.
There are at least two people on this thread that have worked in this area and see where these things are headed/risks involved, so I bristle a bit at being labelled a conspiracy nut. One of the few things I know what I'm talking about
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
This conversation reminded me of this comic.
There are at least two people on this thread that have worked in this area and see where these things are headed/risks involved, so I bristle a bit at being labelled a conspiracy nut. One of the few things I know what I'm talking about
I agree with that cartoon - except that I find the word "voting" to be redundant.
Software - all sorts of software - is developed by... developers. And they really are fucking terrible at what they do... or, rather, they're terrible at providing a reliable and fit-for-purpose product. They're great at what they actually do - which is provide cheap-as-possible shortcut-solutions to any narrowly-scoped requirement put in front of them.
I too, actually work in IT, and have done for longer than I'd like to admit.
But - the problem isn't IT, nor is it anything to do with software. (Or rather, the problem being discussed isn't)
As @antipodean mentions - yeah, if somebody wanted, with access to multiple data-sets, they could come up with some pretty scarily accurate tracing of people. Like... they could already do. And in the private sector - do, already do... and do, already, sell to other agencies.
I worked for NZ's DIA some time ago... and two things I found interesting. One - there was a system to cross-reference EVERYTHING to do with "things of interest"... ie: not just "persons of interest", but "vehicles of interest", "weapons OI", "properties OI", etc. And secondly - there was zero interfaces between multiple government departments, making any cross-referencing actually impossible. FFS - the Police computers didn't talk to the Prison systems , and neither had any interface with the Justice systems.
Just... I have a huge mistrust in government... but not in their intentions, rather their ability to follow through with any nefarious "let's check how many times TSF User#1 wanks" plans. -
OT but related to the recent discussion; IT is a terrible industry without peer in the modern era. A complete lack of professional standards and oversight. Certifications you can earn within a few days of paying for them. Halfwits certifying other halfwits. At least engineering, law and healthcare can prevent you working in them.
Terrifying when you consider how much we rely on it.
Coronavirus - New Zealand