Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver Define vulnerable. Given there are still cases where young people without co-morbidities die. What mortality rate is acceptable?
I suspect playing God with decisions like these is a lot more difficult for politicians than making them from the comfort of a keyboard (not having a go at you BTW).
Evidence to date is that any solution that relies on everyone doing the right thing for the common good is doomed to fail.
Out walking last night almost everyone had slipped straight back into social distancing but with more masks worn but to counter that you have the selfish pricks who fled Auckland ahead of the lockdown because of; ya know the inconvenience of it all.
I hear this.
When you are deciding an acceptable mortality rate, please include a close family member(Wife/Husband or kid) as a death as one of these and still see if that mortality rate is acceptable.
So why not reduce the speed limit to 40 MPH. After all this would save lives. Or ban rugby as this will protect people from injury some serious that will affect a person for life. Or close down all unhealthy food outlets. Let the nanny state go wild. The other option is education or advise and accepting variations in life where our rights and freedoms are maintained. We are all different and especially the young don't want to be treated like children who can't enjoy life.
My view is giving up our right and freedoms to buy a little safety is a recipe for disaster. It just won't end. Already the economy has been ruined. And lives with it. I'm older now. Its up to me to protect myself. Not ruin healthy law abiding citizens lives to MAYBE protect me. I can stay inside and wear a mask and self isolate if I wish
Somewhere along the line the concept of community skipped past......
People that argue vociferously for individualism seem quite happy to pick and choose when to apply it. One could almost say it was selfish.
The understanding of 'rights and freedoms' is also still at that teenage stage.
We will never agree on this.
Finally we agree on something
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver Define vulnerable. Given there are still cases where young people without co-morbidities die. What mortality rate is acceptable?
I suspect playing God with decisions like these is a lot more difficult for politicians than making them from the comfort of a keyboard (not having a go at you BTW).
Evidence to date is that any solution that relies on everyone doing the right thing for the common good is doomed to fail.
Out walking last night almost everyone had slipped straight back into social distancing but with more masks worn but to counter that you have the selfish pricks who fled Auckland ahead of the lockdown because of; ya know the inconvenience of it all.
I hear this.
When you are deciding an acceptable mortality rate, please include a close family member(Wife/Husband or kid) as a death as one of these and still see if that mortality rate is acceptable.
So why not reduce the speed limit to 40 MPH. After all this would save lives. Or ban rugby as this will protect people from injury some serious that will affect a person for life. Or close down all unhealthy food outlets. Let the nanny state go wild. The other option is education or advise and accepting variations in life where our rights and freedoms are maintained. We are all different and especially the young don't want to be treated like children who can't enjoy life.
My view is giving up our right and freedoms to buy a little safety is a recipe for disaster. It just won't end. Already the economy has been ruined. And lives with it. I'm older now. Its up to me to protect myself. Not ruin healthy law abiding citizens lives to MAYBE protect me. I can stay inside and wear a mask and self isolate if I wish
Somewhere along the line the concept of community skipped past......
People that argue vociferously for individualism seem quite happy to pick and choose when to apply it. One could almost say it was selfish.
The understanding of 'rights and freedoms' is also still at that teenage stage.
We will never agree on this. You believe in the nanny state option. Where leaders and their wise advisers will lead us to the promised land as long as we strictly follow their advise. And those that don't will be punished. It hasn't worked in the past and it likely never will. And its not a world I want to live in. One example. I was looking forward to the Blues Crusaders game and I don't like that we need permission from a Govt to play the game. Because a small number of people have the yearly flu. Once again. It would be different if this was a black death or Spanish flu type virus.
Please stop saying this virus is "the yearly flu". If only because it is not influenza.
Or, because even by the most pessimistic accounts of "flu-related deaths" - this virus is killing ~40x more people per day than "the yearly flu" does on average.
I'm not going to debate the rest of it. As @canefan says - when everybody's starting off with a different definition of "rights/freedoms", and even "basic physics"... not much point. -
@Winger Once and for all - we don't have the yearly flu. Repeatedly saying it doesn't make it so.
According to CCDC just under 35K people died p.a. from seasonal flu from 2010/11 - 2016/17 (the last year with final estimates). The worst year in the period was 51K.
As of yesterday 168K have died from CV-19 in the USA and they haven't even started normal flu season.
So the death toll is 300% of the worst year in the seven highlighted. And it is not abating and they haven't gone into winter yet.
there is nothing ordinary about any of this hence the need for extraordinary measures
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver Define vulnerable. Given there are still cases where young people without co-morbidities die. What mortality rate is acceptable?
I suspect playing God with decisions like these is a lot more difficult for politicians than making them from the comfort of a keyboard (not having a go at you BTW).
Evidence to date is that any solution that relies on everyone doing the right thing for the common good is doomed to fail.
Out walking last night almost everyone had slipped straight back into social distancing but with more masks worn but to counter that you have the selfish pricks who fled Auckland ahead of the lockdown because of; ya know the inconvenience of it all.
I hear this.
When you are deciding an acceptable mortality rate, please include a close family member(Wife/Husband or kid) as a death as one of these and still see if that mortality rate is acceptable.
So why not reduce the speed limit to 40 MPH. After all this would save lives. Or ban rugby as this will protect people from injury some serious that will affect a person for life. Or close down all unhealthy food outlets. Let the nanny state go wild. The other option is education or advise and accepting variations in life where our rights and freedoms are maintained. We are all different and especially the young don't want to be treated like children who can't enjoy life.
My view is giving up our right and freedoms to buy a little safety is a recipe for disaster. It just won't end. Already the economy has been ruined. And lives with it. I'm older now. Its up to me to protect myself. Not ruin healthy law abiding citizens lives to MAYBE protect me. I can stay inside and wear a mask and self isolate if I wish
Somewhere along the line the concept of community skipped past......
People that argue vociferously for individualism seem quite happy to pick and choose when to apply it. One could almost say it was selfish.
The understanding of 'rights and freedoms' is also still at that teenage stage.
We will never agree on this. You believe in the nanny state option. Where leaders and their wise advisers will lead us to the promised land as long as we strictly follow their advise. And those that don't will be punished. It hasn't worked in the past and it likely never will. And its not a world I want to live in. One example. I was looking forward to the Blues Crusaders game and I don't like that we need permission from a Govt to play the game. Because a small number of people have the yearly flu. Once again. It would be different if this was a black death or Spanish flu type virus.
For starters this ISN'T the yearly flu. It is a new virus that attacks the respiratory system (as the flu does) but is harder hitting.
It is actually more debilitating than the Spanish Flu. The difference being that as a more modern world with better scientific knowledge about these things we have learned lessons on how to deal with pandemics better.
The very restrictions that you complain about are the reasons why the death tolls haven't reached Spanish Flu proportions, NOT the virulence of the bug itself. You should be intelligent enough to understand that correlation but continually refuse to see it in your obsession with 'rights'I don't believe in a nanny state option and reserve the right as a member of society to assess the actions of my government, debate them and decide for myself whether what they are doing is the right thing in both the short and long term. Assigning me that other position is akin to me saying that you believe in anarchy.
The biggest difference is that you are fixated on YOUR rights, not the rights of everyone. You will couch the argument up that you are looking out for everyone's rights but it is all at an individual level with a selfish view regarding others. You need to accept that you live in a society and benefit greatly from doing so. That means that at times you may need to forgo some things to gain others.
You attitude to vaccinations is a clear example of this. You want a negative freedom to decide whether to be vaccinated, but ignore the positive freedom that comes with not having the disease. You can only get that positive freedom by either accepting to vaccinate or selfishly expecting others to do it for you to reduce community risk.As an intelligent person I cannot understand your ready acceptance of unsupported conspiracy theories. They smack not of individual choice as you think but of looking to blame others for everything that you slightly don't like.
Mods: I know this post is far more playing the man not the ball but if someone is going to assign a position on me as an argument over and over again I hope I have the 'right' of reply.
@Winger . Although I direct these comments at you I am attacking your views not you yourself. For all I know we could happily have a beer together (even if I'd come away laughing at your crazy theories) -
@JK said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Seems to be lots of hype around Auckland (possibly whole country) going back to level 4 over this weekend.
Hopefully just a rumour but the outlook doesnt appear overly positive
Doctors at my work, and colleagues all think we will be at extended L3 or worse L4 for at least a couple of weeks probably more if the scope of the infection is worse than they thought. Terrible news
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I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
Yeah, the three day thing isn't just to allow time to try and trace. They wanted an indication of spread by getting people tested as well.
If the tests from yesterday and today show up unrelated cases then it will be a big concern. If nothing comes up they are back to trying to decipher where the cases came from.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
Yeah, the three day thing isn't just to allow time to try and trace. They wanted an indication of spread by getting people tested as well.
If the tests from yesterday and today show up unrelated cases then it will be a big concern. If nothing comes up they are back to trying to decipher where the cases came from.
They reported a case at MAGS. This could grow legs big time if the last outbreak at Marist school was anything to go by. Thats only one example. They haven't said anything about workplaces of the infected cell yet
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@Crucial yeah they asked on TV why Rotorua wasnt in lockdown given one of the positives visited there, and they said that it isnt in lockdown because if any positives turn up there, they expect it to be related to this lady, so not an unknown spread.
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@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am 100% for a sweedish approach mark II as stated above. spend a billion protecting hyper vulnerable ie rest homes/workers etc encourage basic sanitary procedures and bobs your uncle.
Can you tell us exactly how this would happen? What's the plan? How do we staff rest homes without virus getting in? How do we ensure the vulnerable in the community aren't getting infected? How do we decided who is vulnerable?
Pretty much everyone I know is following basic sanitary procedures, and Bob hasn't proved to be a very good uncle in spite of this.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@muddyriver said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am 100% for a sweedish approach mark II as stated above. spend a billion protecting hyper vulnerable ie rest homes/workers etc encourage basic sanitary procedures and bobs your uncle.
Can you tell us exactly how this would happen? What's the plan? How do we staff rest homes without virus getting in? How do we ensure the vulnerable in the community aren't getting infected? How do we decided who is vulnerable?
Pretty much everyone I know is following basic sanitary procedures, and Bob hasn't proved to be a very good uncle in spite of this.
Unless u plan to staff rest homes with robots Covid19 will find a way in
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
Yeah, the three day thing isn't just to allow time to try and trace. They wanted an indication of spread by getting people tested as well.
If the tests from yesterday and today show up unrelated cases then it will be a big concern. If nothing comes up they are back to trying to decipher where the cases came from.
They reported a case at MAGS. This could grow legs big time if the last outbreak at Marist school was anything to go by. Thats only one example. They haven't said anything about workplaces of the infected cell yet
Yeah any transmission through schools has potential to move very quickly.
Was reports/chat/talk of retirement villages in Hamilton and Christchurch too over the past two days but havent seen anything further there.
You would think with all the people turning up for testing that they must have some pretty significant testing results coming over the next day or two
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@JK said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
Yeah, the three day thing isn't just to allow time to try and trace. They wanted an indication of spread by getting people tested as well.
If the tests from yesterday and today show up unrelated cases then it will be a big concern. If nothing comes up they are back to trying to decipher where the cases came from.
They reported a case at MAGS. This could grow legs big time if the last outbreak at Marist school was anything to go by. Thats only one example. They haven't said anything about workplaces of the infected cell yet
Yeah any transmission through schools has potential to move very quickly.
Was reports/chat/talk of retirement villages in Hamilton and Christchurch too over the past two days but havent seen anything further there.
You would think with all the people turning up for testing that they must have some pretty significant testing results coming over the next day or two
I'd say they are frantically contact tracing. But it will be done manually, in future we need a better system so that they can trace rapidly as time is of the essence
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@JK said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess test results out today and tomorrow will determine just how bad the spread is...or not (hopefully)
Yeah, the three day thing isn't just to allow time to try and trace. They wanted an indication of spread by getting people tested as well.
If the tests from yesterday and today show up unrelated cases then it will be a big concern. If nothing comes up they are back to trying to decipher where the cases came from.
They reported a case at MAGS. This could grow legs big time if the last outbreak at Marist school was anything to go by. Thats only one example. They haven't said anything about workplaces of the infected cell yet
Yeah any transmission through schools has potential to move very quickly.
Was reports/chat/talk of retirement villages in Hamilton and Christchurch too over the past two days but havent seen anything further there.
You would think with all the people turning up for testing that they must have some pretty significant testing results coming over the next day or two
i heard on the radio the chch rest case came back negative
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan soft squishy robots made out of cardboard as it lasts quite a while on hard surfaces.
But hey they're just old fucks right? Contribute nothing to society. No one will miss them...
As long as the economy is sweet what's a few hundred or thousand deaths between friends?