Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Virgil said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am sure patient zero was not a family member but in fact someone working in quarantine services. Either the government know and are working out how to spin the embarassment, or our contact tracing is so fucked they haven't worked it out. Or this family are not being as helpful as they could be in identifying the leak (cultural more than wilful obstruction)
It has to be right? Even IF we had amazingly strict border and quarantine measures in place that would logically be the most likely place to start looking. Dig through all the details and records of ALL staff and try to trace their where abouts and possible links to this family.
They would love to believe it came from that cold store. I can't see it, the virus would die in transit surely
The coldstore thing is simply eliminating a(remote) possibility. You’d be screaming if they didn’t check.
Man there’s a lot of headless chook surmising going on at the moment. I understand that we are in a knowledge vacuum around this but FFS, lining up the firing squad before knowing the crime?
I don't know about you, but after the Melbourne cautionary tale, and all the stories of near misses in our own systems, I expect to be off work and out of pocket for another few weeks. It leaves me thinking
Yeah but it’s oversimplification to say ‘one job.
I’m not excusing incompetence if that is the cause but we don’t know the cause or if it was a risk not covered eg frozen imports
We are still learning how this thing works so can hardly plug gaps that we can’t seeI agree this thing is unforgiving, hardly just a flu. Mistakes will be made. But there are no excuses for lack of testing and breakdown of protocols. If this was a quarantine failure I think it is time to bring in the army to enforce quarantine. At least they stand a good chance of following orders
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I guess the only 'positive' so far, is all the new cases are still linked to the original cluster, it is just the unknown of how this got in originally...
If they are being honest with us then that's good news. I hope they are telling us the truth.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Virgil said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am sure patient zero was not a family member but in fact someone working in quarantine services. Either the government know and are working out how to spin the embarassment, or our contact tracing is so fucked they haven't worked it out. Or this family are not being as helpful as they could be in identifying the leak (cultural more than wilful obstruction)
It has to be right? Even IF we had amazingly strict border and quarantine measures in place that would logically be the most likely place to start looking. Dig through all the details and records of ALL staff and try to trace their where abouts and possible links to this family.
They would love to believe it came from that cold store. I can't see it, the virus would die in transit surely
The coldstore thing is simply eliminating a(remote) possibility. You’d be screaming if they didn’t check.
Man there’s a lot of headless chook surmising going on at the moment. I understand that we are in a knowledge vacuum around this but FFS, lining up the firing squad before knowing the crime?
I don't know about you, but after the Melbourne cautionary tale, and all the stories of near misses in our own systems, I expect to be off work and out of pocket for another few weeks. It leaves me thinking
Yeah but it’s oversimplification to say ‘one job.
I’m not excusing incompetence if that is the cause but we don’t know the cause or if it was a risk not covered eg frozen imports
We are still learning how this thing works so can hardly plug gaps that we can’t seeI agree this thing is unforgiving, hardly just a flu. Mistakes will be made. But there are no excuses for lack of testing and breakdown of protocols. If this was a quarantine failure I think it is time to bring in the army to enforce quarantine. At least they stand a good chance of following orders
The army are no more trained to deal with this situation than anyone else. In fact so much would be unworkable because they would only follow explicit orders.
Not quite sure how many spare service folk are around waiting to do this either.
What type of quarantine failure are you referring to anyway? A breakout? The isolation facilities aren’t high security prisons so putting more army in charge doesn’t solve anything there.
As for the testing of handling staff, the numbers being thrown around by press are misleading. They are counting people that have no risk of contact.
Look, I know that plenty of mistakes have been made but (and this is no excuse) you need to realise that this is being arranged by public servants who are pretty incompetent at their own jobs let alone something new.
It’s all very well expecting better performance but you are unlikely to get it or get a better capability of personal in those jobs. The cultures within those organisations don’t exactly attract the best.
These problems would happen no matter who the govt is. Yelling and complaining at them doesn’t improve capabilities. -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Virgil said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am sure patient zero was not a family member but in fact someone working in quarantine services. Either the government know and are working out how to spin the embarassment, or our contact tracing is so fucked they haven't worked it out. Or this family are not being as helpful as they could be in identifying the leak (cultural more than wilful obstruction)
It has to be right? Even IF we had amazingly strict border and quarantine measures in place that would logically be the most likely place to start looking. Dig through all the details and records of ALL staff and try to trace their where abouts and possible links to this family.
They would love to believe it came from that cold store. I can't see it, the virus would die in transit surely
The coldstore thing is simply eliminating a(remote) possibility. You’d be screaming if they didn’t check.
Man there’s a lot of headless chook surmising going on at the moment. I understand that we are in a knowledge vacuum around this but FFS, lining up the firing squad before knowing the crime?
I don't know about you, but after the Melbourne cautionary tale, and all the stories of near misses in our own systems, I expect to be off work and out of pocket for another few weeks. It leaves me thinking
Yeah but it’s oversimplification to say ‘one job.
I’m not excusing incompetence if that is the cause but we don’t know the cause or if it was a risk not covered eg frozen imports
We are still learning how this thing works so can hardly plug gaps that we can’t seeI agree this thing is unforgiving, hardly just a flu. Mistakes will be made. But there are no excuses for lack of testing and breakdown of protocols. If this was a quarantine failure I think it is time to bring in the army to enforce quarantine. At least they stand a good chance of following orders
The army are no more trained to deal with this situation than anyone else. In fact so much would be unworkable because they would only follow explicit orders.
Not quite sure how many spare service folk are around waiting to do this either.
What type of quarantine failure are you referring to anyway? A breakout? The isolation facilities aren’t high security prisons so putting more army in charge doesn’t solve anything there.
As for the testing of handling staff, the numbers being thrown around by press are misleading. They are counting people that have no risk of contact.
Look, I know that plenty of mistakes have been made but (and this is no excuse) you need to realise that this is being arranged by public servants who are pretty incompetent at their own jobs let alone something new.
It’s all very well expecting better performance but you are unlikely to get it or get a better capability of personal in those jobs. The cultures within those organisations don’t exactly attract the best.
These problems would happen no matter who the govt is. Yelling and complaining at them doesn’t improve capabilities.Indeed, I love how political whingers wank on about how well the other side would do with absolutely no evidence to back up whether this would be the case or not.
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@MN5 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Indeed, I love how political whingers wank on about how well the other side would do with absolutely no evidence to back up whether this would be the case or not.
You do see differences in performance between successive governments in (for instance) Health. Priorities, attention and effort change depending on who is in charge. So, kind of like Charlie Ngatai, the bloke not on the field can get better in people's eyes
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@MN5 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Indeed, I love how political whingers wank on about how well the other side would do with absolutely no evidence to back up whether this would be the case or not.
You do see differences in performance between successive governments in (for instance) Health. Priorities, attention and effort change depending on who is in charge. So, kind of like Charlie Ngatai, the bloke not on the field can get better in people's eyes
That's probably the best analogy I've ever seen on the fern. Ever.
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@MN5 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Virgil said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I am sure patient zero was not a family member but in fact someone working in quarantine services. Either the government know and are working out how to spin the embarassment, or our contact tracing is so fucked they haven't worked it out. Or this family are not being as helpful as they could be in identifying the leak (cultural more than wilful obstruction)
It has to be right? Even IF we had amazingly strict border and quarantine measures in place that would logically be the most likely place to start looking. Dig through all the details and records of ALL staff and try to trace their where abouts and possible links to this family.
They would love to believe it came from that cold store. I can't see it, the virus would die in transit surely
The coldstore thing is simply eliminating a(remote) possibility. You’d be screaming if they didn’t check.
Man there’s a lot of headless chook surmising going on at the moment. I understand that we are in a knowledge vacuum around this but FFS, lining up the firing squad before knowing the crime?
I don't know about you, but after the Melbourne cautionary tale, and all the stories of near misses in our own systems, I expect to be off work and out of pocket for another few weeks. It leaves me thinking
Yeah but it’s oversimplification to say ‘one job.
I’m not excusing incompetence if that is the cause but we don’t know the cause or if it was a risk not covered eg frozen imports
We are still learning how this thing works so can hardly plug gaps that we can’t seeI agree this thing is unforgiving, hardly just a flu. Mistakes will be made. But there are no excuses for lack of testing and breakdown of protocols. If this was a quarantine failure I think it is time to bring in the army to enforce quarantine. At least they stand a good chance of following orders
The army are no more trained to deal with this situation than anyone else. In fact so much would be unworkable because they would only follow explicit orders.
Not quite sure how many spare service folk are around waiting to do this either.
What type of quarantine failure are you referring to anyway? A breakout? The isolation facilities aren’t high security prisons so putting more army in charge doesn’t solve anything there.
As for the testing of handling staff, the numbers being thrown around by press are misleading. They are counting people that have no risk of contact.
Look, I know that plenty of mistakes have been made but (and this is no excuse) you need to realise that this is being arranged by public servants who are pretty incompetent at their own jobs let alone something new.
It’s all very well expecting better performance but you are unlikely to get it or get a better capability of personal in those jobs. The cultures within those organisations don’t exactly attract the best.
These problems would happen no matter who the govt is. Yelling and complaining at them doesn’t improve capabilities.Indeed, I love how political whingers wank on about how well the other side would do with absolutely no evidence to back up whether this would be the case or not.
On the flip side, Labour were going to easily win the elections simply because they had handled the virus management well, when there was no evidence to show how National would have manged it. Prior to the virus, they were polling behind National. It works both ways.
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@akan004 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@akan004 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Frank I'm definitely not voting Labour. It would be unpatriotic of me to do so since we don't win RWCs when they are in power.
uh, 1987?
Edit: and I liked John Key, but can't resist this:
My bad. Should have said in the pro era.
To be fair, 1987 was Labour in name, but mostly Act in disguise.
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Is anyone really buying the "cold storage" explanation?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial I agree, there is no guarantee that this wouldn't have happened under the Nat's watch too. I guess we will wait to see if they can work out what went wrong
You can only play the team in front of you right? Absolving Labour of responsibility for screwing this all up because a theoretical National government may or may not be better is just ridiculous.
Labour are the government, they are responsible for how this being managed. They took the poll bump when it "went well" (At what cost to our futures?) they can take the lumps when their inadequacies are laid bare.
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@antipodean It's a good distraction from the quarantine failures. Could argue it's right out of the Trump playbook....
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@antipodean all people are saying it that it is very unlikely but is good they are checking all possibilities...
If it could survive for weeks frozen, we be fuckeded.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan if you read my previous posts you will find me in agreement with you...
I'm furiously agreeing with you then.
Avoiding procedural failures in the quarantine system and in the detection of covid19 in workers should have been top priority after seeing the Victorians dropping the ball. And contact tracing the shit out of them
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial I agree, there is no guarantee that this wouldn't have happened under the Nat's watch too. I guess we will wait to see if they can work out what went wrong
You can only play the team in front of you right? Absolving Labour of responsibility for screwing this all up because a theoretical National government may or may not be better is just ridiculous.
Labour are the government, they are responsible for how this being managed. They took the poll bump when it "went well" (At what cost to our futures?) they can take the lumps when their inadequacies are laid bare.
I not calling for absolution at all. Simply saying that changing the head of this beast wont necessarily fix the problems.
Ultimately govts can provide policy and directives but they don't get to employ long term appointments in public services. They can try hard to get rid of incompetence but sometimes it is hard to move or takes a whole term just to get change happening.