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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
I am genuinely puzzled what the motivation would be to “sell” climate change. What is to be gained other than trying to get more donations / clicks in the case of media. Not really convincing. Can definitely see why deniers would do it. Fossil fuels are big money.
Is there actually an argument anymore that the climate is changing? The reasons for it are a different argument.
Of course the climate is changing. It always has. And always will.
The question is. Is it caused by natural factors. Or cows farting and a tiny increase in CO2. My money is on natural factors. Just like my money is on Jesus didn't arise from the dead.
Re motivation. MONEY. And lots of it. Trillions. For example how much does NZ send overseas to this climate fund. And who audits where this money goes to. And how much will Govts collect in extra taxes to save the planet. And carbon trading is also a potential gold mine etc.
Any reason why you think it is natural opposed to human causes? Is there something you read? I'm just curious how people end up with their opinions on this issue.
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves. Something the promoters don't want of course. Its worth trillions to them. To Govts. To carbon traders. To climate funds. And guess who will pay for it.
I know exactly what you're talking about, I've tried to reason with 9/11 truthers and anti vaxxers and all they do is double down when you point out how nonsensical and foolish they are being .
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Scomo is quick to say Australia is only responsible for a very small percentage of emissions, yet if you calculated usage of all the fossil fuels Australia exports it quickly climbs towards 5% which is a lot in terms of per capita.
It's an absurd argument that we're responsible for those.
You don't think Australia should take some responsibility for selling fossil fuels that ultimately end up being burnt contributing to emissions? Climate change is a world issue not just the countries that choose to burn it or not. Surely Australia opening up new mines like Adani so the Indians can get cheap coal cannot be good long term for the planet?
No, no I don't. If we didn't sell the world high quality coal, they'd simply source low cost alternatives elsewhere which would be worse in the source country and for climate change generally.
Furthermore, why should we deny the third world the ability to improve their economy, education and quality of living? All of which are predicated on cheap, dependable energy.
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Agree. But any slight decrease in the Wests CO2 output will be well and truly offset by increases in developing nations
I don't buy the scare stories about CO2.
But if it was true then every country would have to be involved with reducing CO2. (the largest emitter - China - couldn't be excluded). And there would be a huge amount of money going into these mini nukes developments. Not wasting money on say wind turbines.
Neither has occurred.
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
I don't buy the scare stories about CO2.
You should. The science is unequivocal.
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@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
I don't buy the scare stories about CO2.
You should. The science is unequivocal.
That's what the promoters claim. And back it with a fake news 95% (or whatever the % is now) agree.
I wrote below that people need to start thinking for themselves. Rather than blindly trusting so called authority figures and what they read or hear in the fake news media
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ -
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Esp when it involves trillion of dollars out of our pockets. For what. What good has all this money done so far.
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@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Scomo is quick to say Australia is only responsible for a very small percentage of emissions, yet if you calculated usage of all the fossil fuels Australia exports it quickly climbs towards 5% which is a lot in terms of per capita.
It's an absurd argument that we're responsible for those.
You don't think Australia should take some responsibility for selling fossil fuels that ultimately end up being burnt contributing to emissions? Climate change is a world issue not just the countries that choose to burn it or not. Surely Australia opening up new mines like Adani so the Indians can get cheap coal cannot be good long term for the planet?
No, no I don't. If we didn't sell the world high quality coal, they'd simply source low cost alternatives elsewhere which would be worse in the source country and for climate change generally.
Furthermore, why should we deny the third world the ability to improve their economy, education and quality of living? All of which are predicated on cheap, dependable energy.
Is it possible for cheap dependable energy to be green? Why do developing countries need to replicate our mistakes by basing their economies on fossil fuels?
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Esp when it involves trillion of dollars out of our pockets. For what. What good has all this money done so far.
I would be dead if I just thought for myself and didn't trust the expertise and experience of others. The reason I have an internal defibrillator in my chest that brings me back to life is because I trust science and everything it has accomplished. Why would I ignore it when it comes to climate change.
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Esp when it involves trillion of dollars out of our pockets. For what. What good has all this money done so far.
Can you post some sources you trust?
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This post is deleted!
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Esp when it involves trillion of dollars out of our pockets. For what. What good has all this money done so far.
I would be dead if I just thought for myself and didn't trust the expertise and experience of others. The reason I have an internal defibrillator in my chest that brings me back to life is because I trust science and everything it has accomplished. Why would I ignore it when it comes to climate change.
Look mate you’re obviously a shill for big defibrillator .
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@jegga said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Climate change is no different to religion. So it pointless discussing this topic with believers. All I ask them to start doing is to stop trusting authority figures and to start thinking for themselves.
Fair enough, you are right in that I do believe in climate change however I like to think I am open minded enough to listen to other theories. If someone can come up with a good theory on why sea levels, temperatures etc are rising so quickly I would be happy to hear it.
I believe in the Scientific Method and if NASA posts that 97% of climate experts say the warming of the planet is human caused I tend to believe them. If I need my car fixed I go to a mechanic, if I need to fly somewhere I trust the pilot, if I need information on climate change I listen to scientists because they put a man on the moon.
https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Esp when it involves trillion of dollars out of our pockets. For what. What good has all this money done so far.
I would be dead if I just thought for myself and didn't trust the expertise and experience of others. The reason I have an internal defibrillator in my chest that brings me back to life is because I trust science and everything it has accomplished. Why would I ignore it when it comes to climate change.
Look mate you’re obviously a shill for big defibrillator .
It’s gone off inside me a few times and I can assure you it wasn’t a pleasurable experience.👍
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Scomo is quick to say Australia is only responsible for a very small percentage of emissions, yet if you calculated usage of all the fossil fuels Australia exports it quickly climbs towards 5% which is a lot in terms of per capita.
It's an absurd argument that we're responsible for those.
You don't think Australia should take some responsibility for selling fossil fuels that ultimately end up being burnt contributing to emissions? Climate change is a world issue not just the countries that choose to burn it or not. Surely Australia opening up new mines like Adani so the Indians can get cheap coal cannot be good long term for the planet?
No, no I don't. If we didn't sell the world high quality coal, they'd simply source low cost alternatives elsewhere which would be worse in the source country and for climate change generally.
Furthermore, why should we deny the third world the ability to improve their economy, education and quality of living? All of which are predicated on cheap, dependable energy.
Is it possible for cheap dependable energy to be green? Why do developing countries need to replicate our mistakes by basing their economies on fossil fuels?
I guess nuclear is the only dependable energy we've come up with so far. There's a fair bit of R&D needed to improve the tech and bring the price down etc, but that's probably our best hope right now.
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@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Scomo is quick to say Australia is only responsible for a very small percentage of emissions, yet if you calculated usage of all the fossil fuels Australia exports it quickly climbs towards 5% which is a lot in terms of per capita.
It's an absurd argument that we're responsible for those.
You don't think Australia should take some responsibility for selling fossil fuels that ultimately end up being burnt contributing to emissions? Climate change is a world issue not just the countries that choose to burn it or not. Surely Australia opening up new mines like Adani so the Indians can get cheap coal cannot be good long term for the planet?
No, no I don't. If we didn't sell the world high quality coal, they'd simply source low cost alternatives elsewhere which would be worse in the source country and for climate change generally.
Furthermore, why should we deny the third world the ability to improve their economy, education and quality of living? All of which are predicated on cheap, dependable energy.
Is it possible for cheap dependable energy to be green? Why do developing countries need to replicate our mistakes by basing their economies on fossil fuels?
Unfortunately green can't be done to scale cheaply. We know this by looking at two examples: California and Germany.
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@Winger said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Once again please stop believing everything you are told and start thinking for yourself. That's all I ask
Thinking for yourself is pointless when you ignore people who KNOW what they're talking about.
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@No-Quarter said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@chimoaus said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Scomo is quick to say Australia is only responsible for a very small percentage of emissions, yet if you calculated usage of all the fossil fuels Australia exports it quickly climbs towards 5% which is a lot in terms of per capita.
It's an absurd argument that we're responsible for those.
You don't think Australia should take some responsibility for selling fossil fuels that ultimately end up being burnt contributing to emissions? Climate change is a world issue not just the countries that choose to burn it or not. Surely Australia opening up new mines like Adani so the Indians can get cheap coal cannot be good long term for the planet?
No, no I don't. If we didn't sell the world high quality coal, they'd simply source low cost alternatives elsewhere which would be worse in the source country and for climate change generally.
Furthermore, why should we deny the third world the ability to improve their economy, education and quality of living? All of which are predicated on cheap, dependable energy.
Is it possible for cheap dependable energy to be green? Why do developing countries need to replicate our mistakes by basing their economies on fossil fuels?
I guess nuclear is the only dependable energy we've come up with so far. There's a fair bit of R&D needed to improve the tech and bring the price down etc, but that's probably our best hope right now.
In theory, yes.
In practice, I really struggle to see the political will to grab that, or the public will to allow nuclear to be built. It's held to a higher level of safety, and the perception of it is that is't just scary. So, whether it makes rational sense or not, I suspect people will wind up seeing their grandkids suffer with global warming before they tolerate nuclear power plants.
Climate Change