AS v TJP



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  • Is that a new feature of the board? Put the post in the title and leave the post blank?



  • no that's me just cocking up when trying to post



  • @Wreck-Diver The edit function is your friend. You can change the topic title and first post of a thread that you started.



  • @Stargazer yeah tried that and it didn't work. I also seem to have to always login twice for some reason



  • Well if we are allowed to actually comment on the implied content rather than the technology, are you saying TKB is playing better than AS? I'm not so convinced on that.
    AS is still an ok halfback and doing some great things, just not as often (and I have often thought his kicking from the scrum could be dodgy so no surprises there).



  • @nostrildamus said in I think Aaron Smith should just pack for home and look forward to next season. TJ and TKB for half back this weekend.:

    Well if we are allowed to actually comment on the implied content rather than the technology, are you saying TKB is playing better than AS? I'm not so convinced on that.
    AS is still an ok halfback and doing some great things, just not as often (and I have often thought his kicking from the scrum could be dodgy so no surprises there).

    I just don't think his head or form is right at the moment. TJ should start against France. Smith cost us field position directly after the first try with a crap pass to no one, got sin binned then. Straight after half time he hands the ball directly back to Ireland after the kick off which put us on the back foot and in my eyes set the tone for the half. He kicked poorly as well. Just think TKB coming off the bench is better than the way Smith is playing at the moment.



  • @Crucial said in I think Aaron Smith should just pack for home and look forward to next season. TJ and TKB for half back this weekend.:

    Is that a new feature of the board? Put the post in the title and leave the post blank?

    Tried to fix. On phone and have had a red wine or two ... may not be successful ... fingers xed



  • @booboo cheers



  • Can we read @Wreck-Diver 's initial post?



  • @Wreck-Diver said in AS v TJP:

    @booboo cheers

    I'll take that as a yes 🙂



  • @nostrildamus said in AS v TJP:

    Well if we are allowed to actually comment on the implied content rather than the technology, are you saying TKB is playing better than AS? I'm not so convinced on that.
    AS is still an ok halfback and doing some great things, just not as often (and I have often thought his kicking from the scrum could be dodgy so no surprises there).

    Wait what? An ok halfback? Seriously? He's a great halfback with some form issues.

    TJP is doing good things, but even when Smith is having an average game it's noticeable how much better smith's passing is.

    TJPs best moments are on defense and in broken play. That said I would probably give him the start this week. But I don't think he's our best halfback just yet.



  • @mariner4life I agree he is our best half back but just not at the moment. I would say to him forget this game come back next year in top form.



  • My 2c.

    AS is probably the best halfback I have ever seen. And I was a Sid Going devotee in 70s North Auckland and have serious man love for Dave Loveridge (my first ever Test was 2nd v Lions at Athtletic Park '83 ... second half into the gale OWNED by the Naki pig farmer).

    But his head ain't right.

    Give him a rest. Pray that Christmas gives him rest one way or another. Let him re-find his mojo come March.

    In the meantime start TJP and give TKB time off the bench.



  • For all his errors on the weekend he still helped create BBs try with a pass that our other halfbacks couldn't make.



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  • Yeah, Smith needs to retire for the year, have an off season to sort his shit out and then use the Highlanders to get his head back in the game.



  • @Milk said in AS v TJP:

    Yeah, Smith needs to retire for the year, have an off season to sort his shit out and then use the Highlanders to get his head back in the game.

    I thought the same thing during the last game , no one needs the break to sort himself out like he does



  • He has certainly taken the heat off J Savea



  • Disappointing that that pervert couple that caused all this shit haven't been named and shamed yet. Come on social media, do your thing.



  • The fact that I'd be happy for Smith to pack it in for the year is testament to the progress TJP has made in his game. What a great year he has had since being dropped from the first AB squad of the year.



  • @Kirwan I don't agree with the couple going with this story to the media, but if Smith hadn't been an idiot, they wouldn't have had anything to go to the media with. In the end, he is responsible for his own mess, not that couple.



  • @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't agree with the couple going with this story to the media, but if Smith hadn't been an idiot, they wouldn't have had anything to go to the media with. In the end, he is responsible for his own mess, not that couple.

    Actually, they are responsible for the mess he is in.



  • @Hooroo said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't agree with the couple going with this story to the media, but if Smith hadn't been an idiot, they wouldn't have had anything to go to the media with. In the end, he is responsible for his own mess, not that couple.

    Actually, they are responsible for the mess he is in.

    Did they force him to go into a disabled toilet with a woman who wasn't his partner?



  • What's wrong with that?



  • @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    Did they force him to go into a disabled toilet with a woman who wasn't his partner?

    Jeez, chill out. They just slipped into the bathroom for a private discussion



  • @Milk Sure! 😂



  • @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Hooroo said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't agree with the couple going with this story to the media, but if Smith hadn't been an idiot, they wouldn't have had anything to go to the media with. In the end, he is responsible for his own mess, not that couple.

    Actually, they are responsible for the mess he is in.

    Did they force him to go into a disabled toilet with a woman who wasn't his partner?

    No, but that was a private matter between Smith and woman. They crossed the line by recording it (creepy perverts) then instead of complaining to airport staff like a normal person might, they went to the press! Indefensible.

    As I was concerned about at the time, the impact on Smith's form has been dramatic, and it's completely the pervert couple's fault.

    Adults sometimes have sex (shock, horror!!), we don't live in Victorian times.



  • @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.



  • @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    We almost agree, it's just that I don't think ANY of it is our business. It's certainly not worth being reported on in the media (it's not a story) and no matter where he was or what he was wearing, that couple had no right to record a private act.

    It's interesting they don't want their names out there isn't it? It's almost like they want their privacy respected. Bloody hypocrites.



  • @Stargazer and if the perverts weren't such utter creeps, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    Who does that??

    I know stacks of people that have got amongst it in public places but I don't know of anyone that has filed it wothout them knowing.



  • @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    As I was concerned about at the time, the impact on Smith's form has been dramatic, and it's completely the pervert couple's fault.

    Yes. Worst case he's a terrible boyfriend, very insensitive towards people needing to use the disabled toilet. His punishment for that has been complete humiliation, crying on national tv, leading the national news for months and even appearing on international news websites (I've had people ask me about it all the way on the other side of the world- on USA's East Coast, hardly rugby country)... not to mention ruining his international season. His partner has also been humiliated publicly. Completely disproportionate, and I blame that attention seeking, self righteous couple too.

    EDIT: Stupid to do so while wearing the All Blacks kit, but still very disproportionate.



  • @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    We almost agree, it's just that I don't think ANY of it is our business. It's certainly not worth being reported on in the media (it's not a story) and no matter where he was or what he was wearing, that couple had no right to record a private act.

    It's interesting they don't want their names out there isn't it? It's almost like they want their privacy respected. Bloody hypocrites.

    Yes, but the reality is - rightly or wrongly - that All Blacks and other public figures are under more public scrutiny than average Joe or Jane. It comes with all the privileges they have. Every All Black knows that. Smith forgot or chose to ignore that. Again, he was stupid and without his stupidity, there wouldn't have been a story. Average Joe or Jane wouldn't have been headlines in the paper or on tv, even if those perverts had recorded it and had gone to the media.

    I feel sorry for Smith's partner and family, but he's an idiot (also because it wasn't the first time, he should have learned).



  • @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    We almost agree, it's just that I don't think ANY of it is our business. It's certainly not worth being reported on in the media (it's not a story) and no matter where he was or what he was wearing, that couple had no right to record a private act.

    It's interesting they don't want their names out there isn't it? It's almost like they want their privacy respected. Bloody hypocrites.

    Yes, but the reality is - rightly or wrongly - that All Blacks and other public figures are under more public scrutiny than average Joe or Jane. It comes with all the privileges they have. Every All Black knows that. Smith forgot or chose to ignore that. Again, he was stupid and without his stupidity, there wouldn't have been a story. Average Joe or Jane wouldn't have been headlines in the paper or on tv, even if those perverts had recorded it and had gone to the media.

    I feel sorry for Smith's partner and family, but he's an idiot (also because it wasn't the first time, he should have learned).

    So your position is All Blacks can be recorded having sex because they are famous? Wow.



  • @Kirwan Are you mis-reading my posts on purpose? I'll quote my own (previous) post:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't agree with the couple going with this story to the media, but if Smith hadn't been an idiot, they wouldn't have had anything to go to the media with. In the end, he is responsible for his own mess, not that couple.

    Or, to be even more clear, I'll extensively frame it in the law of cause and effect:

    Primary (first in time) cause: Smith (a public person dressed in official team outfit) goes into a disabled toilet at a public airport to have sex (the cheating is irrelevant)
    Primary effect: Someone, at least the couple waiting near the disabled toilet, noticed.

    Secondary cause: The couple who noticed (the perverts), recorded Smith & the woman having sex in a disabled toilet at a public airport and take the story to the media.
    Secondary effect: The media find out about Smith & the woman having sex in a disabled toilet at a public airport.

    Tertiary cause: The media decide to publish the story (with big headlines) about Smith & the woman having sex in a disabled toilet at a public airport. (The fact that he was a public figure in team outfit will certainly have played a big role; average Joe and Jane doing the same thing would either not have been published at all, or would have been a small story in the margin.)
    Tertiary effect: Everyone who reads/hears the story in the media finds out about Smith & the woman having sex in a disabled toilet at a public airport, including his partner and family, and Smith is in deep shit.

    etc etc

    Smith's problems are the consequences of a series of causes. You chose to focus on the secondary cause, but the fact is, that without the primary cause there wouldn't have been a secondary cause. You will have your reasons for that focus; maybe because you don't like it that All Blacks/public figures are under more scrutiny than average people, or maybe because you hate perverts, or maybe for other reasons. Some other people have chosen to focus on the third cause, by criticising the media because they hate tabloid type stories (especially because some media also published the name and photos of his partner and his previous partner).

    The fact remains, however, that the secondary or third cause are dependent on the existence of the primary cause.

    By saying that, I have not expressed any judgment. This reasoning is not subjective, but pure logic. So, no, my position is not that All Blacks can be recorded having sex because they are famous. I'm saying that All Blacks, politicians, celebrities etc are more likely to get noticed doing whatever they are doing because they are public figures. And whatever they are doing is more likely to be published as a "story" by the media (even if it isn't really a front cover story; we're not talking about quality journalism here). For that reason, they should be more aware of what they are doing, where they are doing it and even with whom, and think of the possible consequences of their actions and what responses they can trigger. There, again, no moral judgment from me.



  • @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    We almost agree, it's just that I don't think ANY of it is our business. It's certainly not worth being reported on in the media (it's not a story) and no matter where he was or what he was wearing, that couple had no right to record a private act.

    It's interesting they don't want their names out there isn't it? It's almost like they want their privacy respected. Bloody hypocrites.

    Yes, but the reality is - rightly or wrongly - that All Blacks and other public figures are under more public scrutiny than average Joe or Jane. It comes with all the privileges they have. Every All Black knows that. Smith forgot or chose to ignore that. Again, he was stupid and without his stupidity, there wouldn't have been a story. Average Joe or Jane wouldn't have been headlines in the paper or on tv, even if those perverts had recorded it and had gone to the media.

    I feel sorry for Smith's partner and family, but he's an idiot (also because it wasn't the first time, he should have learned).

    So your position is All Blacks can be recorded having sex because they are famous? Wow.

    You had me to here @Kirwan



  • @Stargazer just to clarify something, ChCh Airport is not a public place. It is a privately owned building and people agree to certain 'rules' on entry. One of those rules is the unauthorised use of filming equipment.

    I know that is irrelevant to your point, but worth clarifying.

    On your point, it is obvious that the subsequent publicity could not have happened with the initial action, however AS was, at the time, entitled to the same levels of privacy as anyone else. He committed no offence other than being recognisable. The scrotes that went to the media with this should have respected his privacy.

    Lets change the action a bit, let's say he was overheard at the airport having an argument with his partner. Then the people that overheard it recognised him, recorded it on their cellphone and went to the papers who published it for tittilation. Is he at fault? I see no difference whatsoever.



  • @Crucial said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer just to clarify something, ChCh Airport is not a public place. It is a privately owned building and people agree to certain 'rules' on entry. One of those rules is the unauthorised use of filming equipment.

    I know that is irrelevant to your point, but worth clarifying.

    On your point, it is obvious that the subsequent publicity could not have happened with the initial action, however AS was, at the time, entitled to the same levels of privacy as anyone else. He committed no offence other than being recognisable. The scrotes that went to the media with this should have respected his privacy.

    Lets change the action a bit, let's say he was overheard at the airport having an argument with his partner. Then the people that overheard it recognised him, recorded it on their cellphone and went to the papers who published it for tittilation. Is he at fault? I see no difference whatsoever.

    I do. An argument with one's partner is unavoidable not a choice...

    He made a poor choice regarless of the subsequent rights and wrongs.

    But enough of that it's been done to death.

    Start TJ. TKB off the bench. Tell AS to out his feet up, "declutter" and that Super Rugby kicks off in 2 and a half months so make the most of it.





  • @Kirwan said in AS v TJP:

    @Stargazer said in AS v TJP:

    @Kirwan I don't care about him having sex (although I do object to the cheating, but I agree that's a private matter). He was just incredibly stupid to have it in a disabled toilet at an airport, wearing his AB costume. If he hadn't been so stupid, there wouldn't have been any publicity.

    We almost agree, it's just that I don't think ANY of it is our business. It's certainly not worth being reported on in the media (it's not a story) and no matter where he was or what he was wearing, that couple had no right to record a private act.

    I believe they recorded in the waiting area of an airport? Reasonably public no? I don't believe the video was a secret camera planted in the bathroom.

    I think it is a story for the pure fact that he was "on duty". If that isn't a story then Cruden missing the plane to Argentina isn't a story and it's a slippery slope from there.


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