-
@antipodean i don't disagree with any of that
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
If the Prime Minister was more statesmanlike, he'd have pointed out we're above getting our knickers in a twist about fake pictures. We don't get hysterical unlike some. That it's a rather pathetic attempt at old propaganda. And that unlike some jurisdications, we've at least instituted an investigation into our own. That both nations benefit from constructive dialogue and trade and this from some politician seeking notoriety doesn't help and he'd be seeking an explanation from the Chinese ambassador.
Instead it's still blowing up, given air.
I'd also point out in the environment of Rudd's petition and the News Media Bargaining Code, Twitter's hypocrisy and selectiveness is on the nose.
But we've tried statesmanlike. We've tried constructive dialogue. We've tried seeking an explanation from the ambassador.
It has gotten us precisely nowhere. I don't mind the reaction to this as it may well be the circuit breaker that is needed to get people around a table. Or not, who knows. China is just going to do what it does.
-
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
If the Prime Minister was more statesmanlike, he'd have pointed out we're above getting our knickers in a twist about fake pictures. We don't get hysterical unlike some. That it's a rather pathetic attempt at old propaganda. And that unlike some jurisdications, we've at least instituted an investigation into our own. That both nations benefit from constructive dialogue and trade and this from some politician seeking notoriety doesn't help and he'd be seeking an explanation from the Chinese ambassador.
Instead it's still blowing up, given air.
I'd also point out in the environment of Rudd's petition and the News Media Bargaining Code, Twitter's hypocrisy and selectiveness is on the nose.
But we've tried statesmanlike. We've tried constructive dialogue. We've tried seeking an explanation from the ambassador.
None of Morrison's press conference I saw was statesmanlike, nor constructive. Perhaps those bits remain on the cutting room floor.
It fell to Marisa Payne to explain we'd called in the ambassador for an apology. What I see from Morrison is an attempt to play to the Daily Telegraph crowd as he perceives them. A strategy thwart with danger given they apparently turned on him over the bushfires - ironically for something I don't think merited the angst directed at him.
The unfortunate reality is the picture was topical and reasonable commentary based on the redacted Brereton Report. I'm certainly not offended.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
ScoMo going off half-cocked again. No one cares if you find imagery offensive.
LOL. Fucking snowflake
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
Surely Australia can do better than this happy clapping clown from marketing?
Isn't he only in this position because a bunch of people have been knifed on his way to both Parliament and leadership?
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
What I see from Morrison is an attempt to play to the Daily Telegraph crowd as he perceives them.
Bingo. This is pure marketing from Morrison in the echo chamber he knows best.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
If the Prime Minister was more statesmanlike, he'd have pointed out we're above getting our knickers in a twist about fake pictures. We don't get hysterical unlike some. That it's a rather pathetic attempt at old propaganda. And that unlike some jurisdications, we've at least instituted an investigation into our own. That both nations benefit from constructive dialogue and trade and this from some politician seeking notoriety doesn't help and he'd be seeking an explanation from the Chinese ambassador.
Instead it's still blowing up, given air.
I'd also point out in the environment of Rudd's petition and the News Media Bargaining Code, Twitter's hypocrisy and selectiveness is on the nose.
But we've tried statesmanlike. We've tried constructive dialogue. We've tried seeking an explanation from the ambassador.
None of Morrison's press conference I saw was statesmanlike, nor constructive. Perhaps those bits remain on the cutting room floor.
That was my point. We've been statesmanlike in the past, plenty of times, but where has it led us?
It fell to Marisa Payne to explain we'd called in the ambassador for an apology. What I see from Morrison is an attempt to play to the Daily Telegraph crowd as he perceives them. A strategy thwart with danger given they apparently turned on him over the bushfires - ironically for something I don't think merited the angst directed at him.
I think he's playing to Australians rather than China, but again I can't see the issue. A bland diplomatic 'statemanlike' statement would have delivered an outcome of precisely zero. This may well deliver zero as well, but at very least he can portray strength to his own people.
The unfortunate reality is the picture was topical and reasonable commentary based on the redacted Brereton Report. I'm certainly not offended.
But coming from a state agent? Really? Is that acceptable today? If a Morrison Government minister tweeted a fake image of Uighurs being massacred would you describe it as 'reasonable commentary'?
You can't on one hand castigate Morrison for not being 'statesmanlike' while at the same time calling the picture 'topical and reasonable commentary'.
-
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
If the Prime Minister was more statesmanlike, he'd have pointed out we're above getting our knickers in a twist about fake pictures. We don't get hysterical unlike some. That it's a rather pathetic attempt at old propaganda. And that unlike some jurisdications, we've at least instituted an investigation into our own. That both nations benefit from constructive dialogue and trade and this from some politician seeking notoriety doesn't help and he'd be seeking an explanation from the Chinese ambassador.
Instead it's still blowing up, given air.
I'd also point out in the environment of Rudd's petition and the News Media Bargaining Code, Twitter's hypocrisy and selectiveness is on the nose.
But we've tried statesmanlike. We've tried constructive dialogue. We've tried seeking an explanation from the ambassador.
None of Morrison's press conference I saw was statesmanlike, nor constructive. Perhaps those bits remain on the cutting room floor.
That was my point. We've been statesmanlike in the past, plenty of times, but where has it led us?
What's statesmanlike calling for an investigation into the Wuflu? Where's the national benefit in doing so? Especially for such a hypersensitive bully as the CCP?
It fell to Marisa Payne to explain we'd called in the ambassador for an apology. What I see from Morrison is an attempt to play to the Daily Telegraph crowd as he perceives them. A strategy thwart with danger given they apparently turned on him over the bushfires - ironically for something I don't think merited the angst directed at him.
I think he's playing to Australians rather than China, but again I can't see the issue. A bland diplomatic 'statemanlike' statement would have delivered an outcome of precisely zero. This may well deliver zero as well, but at very least he can portray strength to his own people.
It doesn't portray strength to me. He comes across as a whiny bitch when he could've treated the picture with contemptuous disregard privately noting that we actually have a glass chin on this one. It points out exactly what the Brereton Report makes clear.
The unfortunate reality is the picture was topical and reasonable commentary based on the redacted Brereton Report. I'm certainly not offended.
But coming from a state agent? Really? Is that acceptable today? If a Morrison Government minister tweeted a fake image of Uighurs being massacred would you describe it as 'reasonable commentary'?
Acceptable has nothing to do with it. The messaging around politicians and State media can make the same point delivered in an entirely different manner.
You can't on one hand castigate Morrison for not being 'statesmanlike' while at the same time calling the picture 'topical and reasonable commentary'.
Of course I can.
-
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
It doesn't portray strength to me. He comes across as a whiny bitch when he could've treated the picture with contemptuous disregard privately noting that we actually have a glass chin on this one. It points out exactly what the Brereton Report makes clear.
OK, but I'd wager in a poll the vast majority of Australians would support his actions on this.
Either way it seems we can agree to disagree.
-
It's abundantly clear to me that Morrison doesn't play chess. Or if he does, he'd get flogged by any eight year old in school chess club. He has failed to demonstrate a capacity for strategic thought, making timely, considered decisions with a clear end game in sight. He and his advisers are unsuited to the highest (elected) office in the land.
Why antagonise China about covid-19? Would it secure their cooperation in an investigation? Would it lead to better dialogue? Would they purchase more of our good and services? Or would it just temporarily shore up a few domestic votes? That's not leadership.
Same same for Hong Kong etc. Do you thin that would secure the agreement between the UK and China? That democracy would flourish? Human rights abuses etc?
It seems no one is pointing out to Morrison that if there's no benefit to a move, perhaps it would be wise not to make it. Much like a good lawyer - you don't ask questions you don't know the answer to.
Sun Tzu: He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
-
@antipodean
What do you propose he do with China? -
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
It's abundantly clear to me that Morrison doesn't play chess. Or if he does, he'd get flogged by any eight year old in school chess club. He has failed to demonstrate a capacity for strategic thought, making timely, considered decisions with a clear end game in sight. He and his advisers are unsuited to the highest (elected) office in the land.
Why antagonise China about covid-19? Would it secure their cooperation in an investigation? Would it lead to better dialogue? Would they purchase more of our good and services? Or would it just temporarily shore up a few domestic votes? That's not leadership.
Same same for Hong Kong etc. Do you thin that would secure the agreement between the UK and China? That democracy would flourish? Human rights abuses etc?
It seems no one is pointing out to Morrison that if there's no benefit to a move, perhaps it would be wise not to make it. Much like a good lawyer - you don't ask questions you don't know the answer to.
Sun Tzu: He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
100%.
What the hell was in this for Australia besides virtue signaling?
Canada took a Huawei executive into custody and isn't facing as sustained and severe retaliation. Australia was able to navigate the foreign interference laws and made the Huawei decision under Turnbull and managed to maintain better relations.
You have to give Morrison credit for pulling out that last election, but even on an purely cynical political basis escalating trade sanctions are going to disproportionately effect the two most politically volatile and parochial states in the country Queensland and WA. It is impossible for the coalition to win if they drop even a couple of seats in those states.
-
@antipodean Quite, although the first key principle of chess is that checkmate trumps everything else, and the second is that material advantage is the easiest to understand and convert into a win. To get any real use out of being good at chess strategy, players have to be sufficiently good at chess tactics (short range) to have the game run long enough for strategy and planning to matter, and also not to accidentally lose the game while focusing on the plan.
-
I'd be tempted to show images and videos of Uyghurs rounded up and sterilized..then say, since you brought it up.
-
@nostrildamus said in Aussie Politics:
Would destroy a lot of fat incomes, mind. That % of Chinese dominance on Aussie exports is a bit of a strong testicle grip.
"Bloody Chinese can't tell US what to do!" juxtaposed with "Check out this cheap TV at JB hifi"
-
Gentlemen of Australia
JobKeeper to wind up at the end of the quarter. In my particular industry it's the only thing keeping many doors open. Treasurer is talking very sternly that it won't be extended, i am leaning towards believing him. I guess my question is, what is the feeling amongst tax payers in other industries around continuing to support the tourism industry in some way? Do we keep these people going so that they exist when and if people are moving again? both domestically as well as internationally obviously. or do we let this industry cull a few operators and re-distribute the resources to other areas until such time as they are required again?
Should the Feds call out the States, and put the problem back on them? Make their border decisions have real impact that they have to pay for?
No judgement on any opinion, just want to know what the feeling is?
And, a quick bit of political outrage if i may. Qld's darling labor government, in a stunning move, have quietly snuck through 4 additional public holidays for employers to pay for. Now, if a PH falls on a weekend, you will get PH rates for both the actual day, and the "extra" day tacked on for the long weekend. Also ANZAC day now has the monday as a PH in addition to the Sunday. Add that on top of the Easter Sunday they threw in last year, and it's 5 extra days we have to pay. And guess which industries this will hurt most? Tourism, hospitality, and retail. Who got fucked hardest by COVID again? cheers for the help Ana.
-
My personal opinion is that JobKeeper is a requirement - across basically any industry - until some form of valid economic recovery can be framed by our Federal Government, and then it needs the right people to execute it. So yeah lol that'll be a while, looking at both sides and their utter incompetence.
No doubt there is a need for wider economic reform across several industries, and I would suggest that a few operators here and there need to fall by the wayside in a BAU sense.
State v Fed - I think it would be a start if the Feds started working with the States on quarantine, in terms of creating a consistent approach to the management of inbound travellers. Additionally they should be providing a more robust framework on border closures because it is fucking up anyone's chance of a decent domestic holiday.
We'd love to book a holiday interstate, but one underpaid security guard sneezes while driving taxis in his third job in Outer Bumfuck, WA, and we're slamming down the shutters.
-
@mariner4life said in Aussie Politics:
And, a quick bit of political outrage if i may. Qld's darling labor government, in a stunning move, have quietly snuck through 4 additional public holidays for employers to pay for. Now, if a PH falls on a weekend, you will get PH rates for both the actual day, and the "extra" day tacked on for the long weekend. Also ANZAC day now has the monday as a PH in addition to the Sunday. Add that on top of the Easter Sunday they threw in last year, and it's 5 extra days we have to pay. And guess which industries this will hurt most? Tourism, hospitality, and retail. Who got fucked hardest by COVID again? cheers for the help Ana.
Fucking Palace Chook. How bad are the Libs in QLD that she can win easily?
-
@mariner4life said in Aussie Politics:
Gentlemen of Australia
JobKeeper to wind up at the end of the quarter. In my particular industry it's the only thing keeping many doors open. Treasurer is talking very sternly that it won't be extended, i am leaning towards believing him. I guess my question is, what is the feeling amongst tax payers in other industries around continuing to support the tourism industry in some way? Do we keep these people going so that they exist when and if people are moving again? both domestically as well as internationally obviously. or do we let this industry cull a few operators and re-distribute the resources to other areas until such time as they are required again?
Should the Feds call out the States, and put the problem back on them? Make their border decisions have real impact that they have to pay for?
Undoubtedly yes. Frydenburg has been clear from the start there will not be state-specific or industry-specific JK subsidies.
In 2016 the Turnbull government proposed dropping federal income tax by 2% and then allowing the states to levy income tax as they saw fit and live or die electorally by the consequences. The proposal was in part to call the states bluff asking for more funding and worked. It is a pity that it didn't get up because Queensland and Victoria would needed to have skin in the game. Very different decisions get made when there is a potential long term economic price to be paid (see Australian Open).
Another example of these states self harming was was the crazy "you have to be back in state within 24 hours or face a 14 day quarantine" edict in the week leading up to Christmas. I know at least three people who got caught with that. $1,000 per person and a whole lot of stress later (not to mention the cost of the unused trip or not being with family and friends over the holidays after a year apart). How much damage does that do to interstate domestic travel until we are fully out of the woods? Would anyone seriously plan an interstate family holiday 2 or 3 months out at this point forget a small event or conference?!
In terms of federal support it depends what sector of the industry are we talking? Tourism is pretty broad and some of the low skill/low barrier sectors which aren't viable IMO worth keeping on life support on the off chance that tourism comes back full steam in 18/24/36 months. Obviously there are some strategic operators and industries that need to be kept afloat, but that funding should be more targeted and in all honesty come from a state level.
On the other hand I would be totally in favour of a temporary higher supplement on Nustart across the country - including displaced hospitality workers etc.
Aussie Politics