Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?



  • Man our prep for Japan has been bloody awful.
    Two more matches and then catapulted into a pretty important firtst-up bragging rights takes all match against the Boks.
    We look STALE. Hansen and co look too fat and comfortable in their chairs.
    I am starting to get an uncomfortable feeling that we are underdone - but also LACKING in many areas, that quite simply should have been sorted out a lot earlier in 2017/18. We are hanging onto too many players past their sell-by dates and by reputations only and I.m now including the coaches in that.
    We seem confused about which is our best back row / midfield ./ 10/15 combo.
    Our offensive defence has been a steaming pile of doggy doo-doo. we are being blown off the ball seemingly with ease and look bereft of creativity and clueless in attack.
    Maybe we should have dispensed with Hansen;s services a couple of years ago, and built into 2019 under new management. For me, after sitting through that aberration - whatever it was -Japan 2019 seems like a gig too far for Hansen. Thoughts?



  • Lets be clear. The All Blacks must win next week at Eden Park or Steve Hansen will be sacked in ignominy. He has really lost the plot in the last 12 months. He has tolerated very low standards from too many players and many of the coaching staff. He is fighting for his job.

    In retrospect it would have been better if he had retired after the Lions Series and Warren Garland had been given the gig. Hansen must rediscover the drive that led him to the top job in New Zealand and fast.

    I think Razor or Wayne Smith would be possible caretakers if the NZRU need to fire Hansen.



  • no. he is absolutely the coach to take us to the world cup

    has the prep for it looked ideal? not from the outside. and if he loses it, his legacy is going to be fucked



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    Razor

    That guy really only coached in the Crusaders/Canterbury system, and when he coached outside it (NZ U20) he produced one of our all time worst teams. Probably a great coach in the making but would be a really bad choice for All Blacks coach, as he only knows how to work with Crusaders players. Needs to get overseas international experience before being allowed anywhere near the All Blacks. Would be a bad fit for bringing together the best players and developing a system for them.



  • Hansen won’t be sacked neither will idiot Foster
    We are going to the big show with these 2 no doubt.I just hope Hansen gets his head out of his arse in time to get us back on track.



  • What is the point of this thread?

    Hansen is not going before Japan.



  • @Tim A better record than Foster who has absolute zilch, Nothing never looked like winning as a head coach ,
    Yet if we get over the line at the WC we will have 4 years of his incompetent BS and a terrible winning record.



  • @Chris He'd be a good choice for assistant coach, and I'd take him over Foster any day.



  • @Tim yep me too scared to think Foster has any hope of being HC.



  • The only head coaches I want next year are: Wayne Smith, Gatland, or Schmidt.



  • @Tim Wayne Smith would be the man



  • @Tim said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    He'd be a good choice for assistant coach, and I'd take him over Foster any day.

    I want Robertson and Brown to be involved. Not sure I want Robertson to be head coach though.. he might have to do though



  • @Billy-Tell said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    What is the point of this thread?

    Hansen is not going before Japan.

    Disagree. NZRU will relieve him of his duties if next week's performance is as bad.



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @Billy-Tell said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    What is the point of this thread?

    Hansen is not going before Japan.

    Disagree. NZRU will relieve him of his duties if next week's performance is as bad.

    You want to put money on that buddy?

    They are not dumping Hansen even if w lose 0-100.


  • Banned

    2019 ABs form is a concern

    2020 is shaping up to be even more of a potential disaster:

    NO Franks Whitelock BBR Read Crotty Bender 👀 👀

    There are serious questions on who'll replace these players beyond ALB + DMAC

    This could be the start of a decline in ABs Hegemony as #1 side in Int'l Rugby in Professional Era

    NZ coaches have greatly influenced European Rugby
    The gap has closed European teams can match ABs with physicality, fitness and intensity

    All ABs have is individual brilliance from Backs + a handful of loose forwards



  • @Jaguares4real Can't say I'm losing a ton of sleep over replacing Franks...



  • Hansen is too stubborn and it doesn't look like he'll make enough changes next week.

    We still have the players and talent to stay 1-3 in the world, no matter what happens this year.
    Razor has the Crusaders playing great rugby. I think he'd be able to do a lot for the ABs. But it's better he coaches the Crusaders for 2 more years then gets international experience.
    I would prefer Gatland or Schmidt, or best would be Wayne Smith coming back for 2 years till Schmidt + Gatland are ready to do the job together.....

    What about Cotter or Joseph? Both very talented and proven...



  • Sam Whitelock will only miss Super Rugby in 2020; he will be available for the All Blacks. He'll return to NZ after the Japanese Top League in May 2020.


  • Banned

    @Wairau

    Cotter is tied up with Montpelier Moved upstairs to Director of Rugby role Though I'm sure he has an exit clause if he was offered AB role

    Joseph is a mystery I would have him as AB coach ahead of Foster and even Razor

    Razor has no experience coaching adult Int'l rugby sides

    Hansen and Henry had alot experience overall and managing Int'l sides before coaching ABs

    Massive difference coaching Canterbury team and having daily interactions to then go 6 months without having any serious dealing with players on the field



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @Billy-Tell said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    What is the point of this thread?

    Hansen is not going before Japan.

    Disagree. NZRU will relieve him of his duties if next week's performance is as bad.

    Functionally how would that work? Tew recommends to the board that they terminate him or the board goes full mutiny and demands Tew sack him. Either is unfathomable.

    This is not the 80's or 90's where the head of Canterbury RFU can go up and down the country riling up other union heads to make changes nor are the local sponsors leaning on the union game by game. The major sponsors are sitting in New York and Nuremburg and don't even know Hansen's name.

    The same goes for those who think Foster is a lock for next year. With Tew gone there will be a new CEO for the selection process and the board has turned over completely in the eight years since Hansen won over Cotter with most appointed 2014 onwards. Looking at the composition of the board there is nothing to indicate Foster has the inside running. A new CEO isn't going to make their first appointment a compromised one out loyalty, nor his Hansen's blessing going to mean anything unless they win.



  • @rotated Same way it does in top level soccer and NFL. Or a top New York, Frankfurt or London firm. It is a result-based industry. If you don't perform, you're fired. No room for sentimentality. I think you under-estminiate the ruthless of Steve Tew and the pressure on him and the board to deliver.

    The All Blacks' sponsors pay NZRU millions of dollars to buy brand attachment with supposedly one of the very top sports teams in the world. In the past 12 months their performances have been extremely poor. Last night the performance was one of the very worst in AB test history. They were thrashed out of sight by the team ranked six in the world. I can't see Hansen escaping the consequences if that under-performance continues next week.



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @rotated Same way it does in top level soccer and NFL. Or a top New York, Frankfurt or London firm. It is a result-based industry. If you don't perform, you're fired. No room for sentimentality. I think you under-estminiate the ruthless of Steve Tew and the pressure on him and the board to deliver.

    I think you underestimate the lack of pressure on Tew. He won two World Cups and he is leaving in December. He has presided over what would be considered an extended period of commerical and on-field success for the ABs.

    I find it hard to believe he has been gone from offering him an extension in December to sensationally firing him a month out from the RWC in the space of half a year.

    Don't get me wrong, if this were August 2018 you have a very valid point and replacing him then would have been massively beneficial for all the reasons I banged on about when Cheika won coach of the year. But it's August 2019 and the RWC starts in a bit.

    Besides no change Tew is forking out the $300 for a name change fee on those flights to Japan.



  • To answer the OP. Yes, he should have left at the mid point as originally planned. The only problem is that would have hand it to Foster did they were in a high, rather than a fresh mind and we'd be in the same (or worse) position. Hansen is picking up some records since 16, leaving a great legacy and the aura pretty much dead
    First draw against Lions
    Doubled our red card tally
    Several on the top 5 worst ever defeats
    First ever loss to Ireland, twice.
    Off the top for the first time in a decade

    And soon to add
    Lost Bled first time in a lifetime
    First loss in Eden park for ages ( already put a draw in there), vs oz for even longer
    First ever loss in pool stages RWC
    Lowest ever world ranking, after we go out of quarters vs Ireland

    I was unhappy, but faithful until this match. More PR about how it's going to click. But it didn't and he wasn't in tears at the press conference, and he bloody should have been

    Disgrace



  • I'm glad that the coaches are happy to throw away our historical record against Ireland and to dice with it every year against Argentina, all in the name of having such a well performing squad heading into a World Cup...



  • @Machpants you could just say other teams have improved to which they have..nothing lasts forever..
    I do however agree Hansen should have moved on after the Lions series..
    Wether it be by accident or just pure bad luck ,there’s 2 positions I believe they have never fully addressed since the 2015 RWC..
    The no 6 jersey and the midfield pairing..,we have chopped and changed so many times ,we are basically a month out from RWC and we are still tampering with the loose forward trio and the permanent midfield pairing which is far from sorted..

    Also a permanent fixture on the right wing, should have just left Bender at fullback and developed a right wing..
    Then you throw in the 2 pivot game plan which has taken far too long to bed in.

    I personally think our amazing record at Eden Park is in serious danger of being blown out the window not to mention the Bledisloe Cup ..

    The week leading up is going to be interesting ..
    My back 3 would be

    Bridge
    Ioane
    Reece



  • @Steven-Harris I have no idea who we should pick and where, cos it's cohesion we miss as much as anything. But I agree with the previous comment, so much for playing crap so we can cane it in Bled and RWC



  • I’m not sure it’s Hanson I completely blame , Foster was a terrible super rugby coach that somehow got into the all blacks coaching team and is now touted as Hanson’s replacement.

    What did Foster ever do to give the impression he was a competent high level coach?



  • @jegga the biggest loss in my book has been Wayne Smith..



  • @Steven-Harris said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @jegga the biggest loss in my book has been Wayne Smith..

    Yep relplaced by ferret.



  • @KiwiMurph The guy is an absolute slug out there. He should have been moved on after the Lions series.



  • @Tim said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    The only head coaches I want next year are: Wayne Smith, Gatland, or Schmidt.

    I'd take Rennie. His back-to-back titles with the Chiefs with a bunch of no name players and discards is more impressive than what Robertson has done with an AB-laden Crusaders team.



  • @Bovidae but taking ABs laden squad to win super rugby is actually quite impressive the way the ABs are playing



  • @Machpants said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @Bovidae but taking ABs laden squad to win super rugby is actually quite impressive the way the ABs are playing

    Ouch



  • @Machpants Or he's run them into the ground. The ABs were so much better when Blackadder was coach. 😉



  • @jegga said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    I’m not sure it’s Hanson I completely blame , Foster was a terrible super rugby coach that somehow got into the all blacks coaching team and is now touted as Hanson’s replacement.

    He got into the coaching team because Hansen wanted him pure and simple. Ditto MacLeod.

    The appointment of MacLeod was really the first time I started questioning if Hansen still had it shortly after the Lions series started the rot.



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    Lets be clear. The All Blacks must win next week at Eden Park or Steve Hansen will be sacked in ignominy. He has really lost the plot in the last 12 months. He has tolerated very low standards from too many players and many of the coaching staff. He is fighting for his job.

    In retrospect it would have been better if he had retired after the Lions Series and Warren Garland had been given the gig. Hansen must rediscover the drive that led him to the top job in New Zealand and fast.

    I think Razor or Wayne Smith would be possible caretakers if the NZRU need to fire Hansen.

    That's not happening.



  • @sparky said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @Billy-Tell said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    What is the point of this thread?

    Hansen is not going before Japan.

    Disagree. NZRU will relieve him of his duties if next week's performance is as bad.

    Bol.

    Locks.



  • @Wairau said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    Hansen is too stubborn and it doesn't look like he'll make enough changes next week.

    We still have the players and talent to stay 1-3 in the world, no matter what happens this year.
    Razor has the Crusaders playing great rugby. I think he'd be able to do a lot for the ABs. But it's better he coaches the Crusaders for 2 more years then gets international experience.
    I would prefer Gatland or Schmidt, or best would be Wayne Smith coming back for 2 years till Schmidt + Gatland are ready to do the job together.....

    What about Cotter or Joseph? Both very talented and proven...

    Who are you changing?

    That was ptetty much the number one team.



  • @booboo said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    @Wairau said in Is Japan a WC too far for Hansen?:

    Hansen is too stubborn and it doesn't look like he'll make enough changes next week.

    We still have the players and talent to stay 1-3 in the world, no matter what happens this year.
    Razor has the Crusaders playing great rugby. I think he'd be able to do a lot for the ABs. But it's better he coaches the Crusaders for 2 more years then gets international experience.
    I would prefer Gatland or Schmidt, or best would be Wayne Smith coming back for 2 years till Schmidt + Gatland are ready to do the job together.....

    What about Cotter or Joseph? Both very talented and proven...

    Who are you changing?

    That was ptetty much the number one team.

    alt text



  • I'm going to the first SF. Looks like we will be watching the saffas at this rate


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