Possible All Blacks 2020
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[edit - split from the Crusaders v Blues match thread]
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
Some thoughts from last night
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Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
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Goodhue is doing well at 12. Still undecided if he has the long range kicking instincts to really nail the position. Might come in time. Big year for him. I think we find out if he is the real deal or not this year after a disappointing season from him last year.
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First time I saw why some people from Canterbury have been banging on about Grace. Looks a natural lineout option and there were a couple of thumping ruck clean outs that made me take notice. I was a bit meh about him during the NPC, but the boy did good last night.
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this is not a vintage Crusader forward pack, but the team is still looking well coached.
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don't see Bridge as a long term AB. He cannot beat a man.
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Havali is showing he may be NZ's best fullback (although I would still have Barrett there for the ABs). The perfect bench option?
McKenzie will be the ABs fullback, with Havili or J. Barrett on the bench, for their versatility.
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@cgrant McKenzie at fullback is not a given. BB might get that 15 jersey, and McKenzie 22.
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More likely than Havili or J. Barrett anyway.
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@voodoo I dunno I'm with you. Love to watch him and he can be dynamite. But FOster in his interviews (correctly) pointing out ABs have often been physically dominated, says to me tall lock like Fullbacks not smallhalfback like fullbacks. Then again SA have used their small backs to good effect.
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J Barrett is still shit. For every good thing he does, there is still something that looks park rugby to accompany it.
B Barrett at 15, DMac in 23 is still most likely
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Im a massive Dmac fan in as far as I love watching him, entertainment plus , breath of fresh air , individualism , all of that
But not sure if i want him starting in the ABS
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@voodoo said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Stargazer said in Blues v Crusaders:
@cgrant McKenzie at fullback is not a given. BB might get that 15 jersey, and McKenzie 22.
Shit, I agree. There seems a lot of of love on the Fern for Dmac post RWC, but I personally have never been a fan. Obvs he is good, but he's still too helter skelter for me. I dont mind him.on the bench, as there are certain open games he can be really effective in. But equally I think there are lots of tighter games that he adds little value but plenty of danger to.
[Braces self for intense rebuttal from the Fern]
The last coaching setup wanted him comiing off the bench I believe .. running at tired legs. He's a massive talent, and was just getting his game in order when we borked him. Hope the injury doesn't do a Cullen to him
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@Machpants said in Blues v Crusaders:
@voodoo I dunno I'm with you. Love to watch him and he can be dynamite. But FOster in his interviews (correctly) pointing out ABs have often been physically dominated, says to me tall lock like Fullbacks not smallhalfback like fullbacks. Then again SA have used their small backs to good effect.
Fixing our physicality with a big fullback is akin to picking our spin bowler based on batting ability.
It's ignoring the actual issue.
(Having said that, I'd like to see at least one big powerful winger - Rieko.)
Am a fan of DMac, and can see him and BB interchanging in that role. Wouldn't surprise to see BB at 10 and DMac 15 in some games.
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@nzzp said in Blues v Crusaders:
@voodoo said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Stargazer said in Blues v Crusaders:
@cgrant McKenzie at fullback is not a given. BB might get that 15 jersey, and McKenzie 22.
Shit, I agree. There seems a lot of of love on the Fern for Dmac post RWC, but I personally have never been a fan. Obvs he is good, but he's still too helter skelter for me. I dont mind him.on the bench, as there are certain open games he can be really effective in. But equally I think there are lots of tighter games that he adds little value but plenty of danger to.
[Braces self for intense rebuttal from the Fern]
The last coaching setup wanted him comiing off the bench I believe .. running at tired legs. He's a massive talent, and was just getting his game in order when we borked him. Hope the injury doesn't do a Cullen to him
He does look quite sharp despite the injury.
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@mariner4life aye? Jordie has been outstanding to start the season.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
- Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
The Crusaders have only lost three times during Razor's tenure when Mo'unga has played.
To the Canes and to the B&I Lions in 2017.
And to the Chiefs in the Fiji heat last year.
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@Chris-B said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
- Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
The Crusaders have only lost three times during Razor's tenure when Mo'unga has played.
To the Canes and to the B&I Lions in 2017.
And to the Chiefs in the Fiji heat last year.
Ah yes the heat. That the Chiefs didn't play in that evening.
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@Chris-B said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
- Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
The Crusaders have only lost three times during Razor's tenure when Mo'unga has played.
To the Canes and to the B&I Lions in 2017.
And to the Chiefs in the Fiji heat last year.
The Crusaders are one thing, the All Blacks another one. RM has yet to show that he is a world class 1st 5/8. He has been playing beyond expectations for the ABs so far.
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@mariner4life said in Blues v Crusaders:
J Barrett is still shit. For every good thing he does, there is still something that looks park rugby to accompany it.
B Barrett at 15, DMac in 23 is still most likely
I wouldn't start Jordie at 15 for AB's but calling him shit is a bit over the top.
He has been a huge part of the Canes two wins so far.
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@booboo said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Am a fan of DMac, and can see him and BB interchanging in that role. Wouldn't surprise to see BB at 10 and DMac 15 in some games.
The coach is Foster. If it's even a slightly close call I think he'll go for a Waikato player
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@Duluth said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@booboo said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Am a fan of DMac, and can see him and BB interchanging in that role. Wouldn't surprise to see BB at 10 and DMac 15 in some games.
The coach is Foster. If it's even a slightly close call I think he'll go for a Waikato player
quality ... provincial bias coming out clearly
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@nzzp said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
quality ... provincial bias coming out clearly
He has history
There's strong arguments for McKenzie and Jacobson being in the starting xv. I just can't see Foster going against those guys in a marginal call
What people want to be the starting fullback/whatever is different than predicting what Foster will select
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FFS anyone that can't by now see J Barrett is a Muppet outside back, clearly can't be watching with the screen on. He needs to move somewhere he can play 12 because he's a fuck up elsewhere.
I'm not a massive DMac fan but I do see his value as an impact bench player. In saying that he's going to have some competition from Havili'i in a similar role. Outside back cover in general will be quite congested.
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@shark said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
FFS anyone that can't by now see J Barrett is a Muppet outside back, clearly can't be watching with the screen on. He needs to move somewhere he can play 12 because he's a fuck up elsewhere.
Anyone who can knock over 63 m penalties shuold be somewhere in the squad. Just opens up so much of the field to score points in
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@nzzp said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@shark said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
FFS anyone that can't by now see J Barrett is a Muppet outside back, clearly can't be watching with the screen on. He needs to move somewhere he can play 12 because he's a fuck up elsewhere.
Anyone who can knock over 63 m penalties shuold be somewhere in the squad. Just opens up so much of the field to score points in
He's been big for the Canes so far. I did not expect us to do anything this season and we're 2 from 3
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The least of my concerns is who starts in numbers 10-15.
I'm more interested in 4,5,6,7&8
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@booboo said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@Chris-B said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
- Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
The Crusaders have only lost three times during Razor's tenure when Mo'unga has played.
To the Canes and to the B&I Lions in 2017.
And to the Chiefs in the Fiji heat last year.
Ah yes the heat. That the Chiefs didn't play in that evening.
Yes - the conditions are never better suited to one team than another.
Mud, wind, high veldt - always the same for both teams.
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@shark lol did J Barrett cost you a multi or something? From where I'm sitting he has been the form 15 in the competition so far alongside DMac and Havili. Excellent under the high ball, physical in contact and can hoof the ball a mile, add to the fact he is nearly 100% off the boot.
Yes, he makes the odd brain explosion, however, I put that down to age more than anything else.
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Based on season so far (but bound to change) :
- Moody 2. Coles 3. Laulala 4. S. Barrett 5. Tuipulotu 6. Bolshier 7. Cane (c) 8. Sotutu 9. A. Smith 10. R. Mo'unga 11. Reece 12. Goodhue 13. ALB 14. McKenzie. 15. J. Barrett 16 Taylor 17. Moli 18. Lomax 19. Walker- Leawere 20. Papali'i 21.Weber 22. B. Barrett 23. Laumape
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@cgrant said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@Chris-B said in Blues v Crusaders:
@Crazy-Horse said in Blues v Crusaders:
- Mo'unga is irreplaceable. He goes down long term the Crusaders are poked. Havili was ok last week, but he isn't a championship winning 10, and we can all see Cameron is not up to it yet.
The Crusaders have only lost three times during Razor's tenure when Mo'unga has played.
To the Canes and to the B&I Lions in 2017.
And to the Chiefs in the Fiji heat last year.
The Crusaders are one thing, the All Blacks another one. RM has yet to show that he is a world class 1st 5/8. He has been playing beyond expectations for the ABs so far.
Hansen thinks he is.
I agree with Hansen.
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@sparky said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Based on season so far (but bound to change) :
- Moody 2. Coles 3. Laulala 4. S. Barrett 5. Tuipulotu 6. Bolshier 7. Cane (c) 8. Sotutu 9. A. Smith 10. R. Mo'unga 11. Reece 12. Goodhue 13. ALB 14. McKenzie. 15. J. Barrett 16 Taylor 17. Moli 18. Lomax 19. Walker- Leawere 20. Papali'i 21.Weber 22. B. Barrett 23. Laumape
Beaudy gets a shot but not Sam Whitelock despte no SR this season?
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@Machpants Is Sam W eligible for the Wales and Scotland games? Think we will see him and BB in the squad but not initially as starters.
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@sparky Oh good point, I thought he was bu maybe it's just RC?
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@sparky A lot of midget backs in that team!
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@sparky SW will be back after the TL, so in May. Plenty of time.
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@Chris-B Jordie makes up for it. Ben Lam might make the ABs as the power winger in 2020.
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I'm thinking Bosh to initially take Todd's backup place in the squad.
What we desperately missed was hard tackling/clearing players in 6 and 8. Read had lost his edge and we didn't have a thumping 6.
If we go Cane and Ardie as interchanging 7/8s depending on field position we need that thumping 6 even more.
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@sparky Those four little guys are rarely going to make dominant tackles - more than a quarter of the team.
Poor old Reiko getting no love?
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Maybe one for the kneejerk reaction thread but maybe it is time for Coles to take a step back.
He is still mobile and dynamic but is relying more on his niggly tendencies than being a dominant defender.
If this is a year of introducing talent then maybe the likes of Samisoni Taukei’aho will get a look in.
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@Crucial said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Maybe one for the kneejerk reaction thread but maybe it is time for Coles to take a step back.
He is still mobile and dynamic but is relying more on his niggly tendencies than being a dominant defender.
If this is a year of introducing talent then maybe the likes of Samisoni Taukei’aho will get a look in.I disagree, I don't think we played him enough in the RWC, especially as Taylor wasn't up to his usual standards.
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@Nepia said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@Crucial said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Maybe one for the kneejerk reaction thread but maybe it is time for Coles to take a step back.
He is still mobile and dynamic but is relying more on his niggly tendencies than being a dominant defender.
If this is a year of introducing talent then maybe the likes of Samisoni Taukei’aho will get a look in.I disagree, I don't think we played him enough in the RWC, especially as Taylor wasn't up to his usual standards.
Trouble with Coles is that if the game, or his form, isn't going well he reverts to being a liability discipline wise. He was bloody lucky on the weekend to stay on the field after that cheap shot shoulder into a player on the ground. If he had connected with the head (which was quite possible as he had no control) he would have seen red.
He has lost the acceleration that made him so dangerous if a break came his way and I don't see him lasting the full cycle anyway.
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@Crucial said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@Nepia said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
@Crucial said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
Maybe one for the kneejerk reaction thread but maybe it is time for Coles to take a step back.
He is still mobile and dynamic but is relying more on his niggly tendencies than being a dominant defender.
If this is a year of introducing talent then maybe the likes of Samisoni Taukei’aho will get a look in.I disagree, I don't think we played him enough in the RWC, especially as Taylor wasn't up to his usual standards.
Trouble with Coles is that if the game, or his form, isn't going well he reverts to being a liability discipline wise. He was bloody lucky on the weekend to stay on the field after that cheap shot shoulder into a player on the ground. If he had connected with the head (which was quite possible as he had no control) he would have seen red.
He has lost the acceleration that made him so dangerous if a break came his way and I don't see him lasting the full cycle anyway.I don't care about the cycle TBH, as long as he's still in our two best all round hookers that's good enough for me ... but he does need to rein in his red mist, needs a stern talking to from Fozzie, but hey a Barrett got a red card last year for the red mist and his place seems pretty safe.
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@Crucial I watched 2019 Bled 2 on the weekend and his cover defence pulling down backs suggests he's still got some speed.
I like Coles because he's talented, skilful and that blend of forward that won't take a backward step.
Players can come into the All Black environment to improve, but starting Tests should go to the best players. He's still clearly one of the top two in the country and come the second half of the year that remains the case, if some bloke with 22 SR caps since 2017 gets a guernsey ahead of him, I'll support a different team.
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@mariner4life said in Possible All Blacks 2020:
J Barrett is still shit. For every good thing he does, there is still something that looks park rugby to accompany it.
B Barrett at 15, DMac in 23 is still most likely
I'd level exactly the same criticism at DMac.
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@No-Quarter of course you would
