Guns and Strippers thread! Best ever!
-
I may be wrong but I don't think being a good sniper is easy. You need the talent and the training, which probably narrows down the type of people behind this. E.G. probably not just disaffected high school kids or someone that decides to carry out a random killing in the name of ISIS or any other fundamentalist group.<br><br>
What a fucking mess that country is now. I can't see an end to any of this. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="595229" data-time="1467978445"><p>I may be wrong but I don't think being a good sniper is easy. You need the talent and the training, which probably narrows down the type of people behind this. E.G. probably not just disaffected high school kids or someone that decides to carry out a random killing in the name of ISIS or any other fundamentalist group.<br><br>
What a fucking mess that country is now. I can't see an end to any of this.</p></blockquote>
<br>
You also need the right mindset, which training can help with in certain situations. To pull the trigger on a target that can't even see you is some cold shit. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="595229" data-time="1467978445">
<div>
<p>I may be wrong but I don't think being a good sniper is easy. You need the talent and the training, which probably narrows down the type of people behind this. E.G. probably not just disaffected high school kids or someone that decides to carry out a random killing in the name of ISIS or any other fundamentalist group.<br><br>
What a fucking mess that country is now. I can't see an end to any of this.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>True, but zero indicates they were good snipers. That was a VERY target rich environment & they managed to kill 5 people. Despite having several minutes where those they were trying to kill were in the open, often not moving, not knowing where they were.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Literally anyone with a decent rifle who had spent some time on a range was qualified to do this. More so when you listen to the footage & their fire was in the spray & pray category</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="595224" data-time="1467977681">
<div>
<p>Hold on what post are you talking about here. I am making no excuses for the cops. I was just noting that every single person was armed, it was just an observation. Maybe it was my shitty punctuation, but I still can't see where someone might think that from any of my posts. Or has Tim mistaken my and antipodeans posts?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Impossible for me to relate to the culture in the US where everyone needs to be armed all the time. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also there is no evidence of who these snipers where or who they were associated with. At this point they could have been crack pot militants trying to start a race war, BLM, ISIS or just a bunch of high school kids living out a COD fantasy. This is the US any of things are possible.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Sorry! Had the posts/posters mixed up.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="595182" data-time="1467974249">
<div>
<p>I wouldn't know. Why else do you think they behave in such a manner?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>No mate, me neither.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>in fact it's objectively impossible to know why, even if he offered an explanation I wouldn't necessarily count on it as the exact basis for shooting the male driver of a car with a mother and daughter as co occupants.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As for other "elses". i think there are many plausible ones. Not out and out extreme racism but perhaps a general affliction exhibited in the white western world - a sense of superiority. It's something I've noticed since moving from Asia to the west (Australia). GENERALISATION ALERT!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I find people in rich western countries to be far more judgemental than those I encountered in Asia. I find people making all sorts of judgements and criticisms based on minimal contact with the people in their firing line (the fern is a classic example). just an observation but I sense that in Asia most people were trying too hard to survive and take care of their own lives to expend much energy on others outside their sphere - "up to him (her)" would be a catch phrase I heard often in Asia. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>but I digress</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't agree with fear being an explanation because I think it apportions some blame to people purely because of the amount of melanin in the skin cells.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>i think it in <u>some</u> <u>way</u> offers up the victims as blameworthy or deserving.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think the policeman is to blame and his training, attitude, working relationships are more relevant.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'd suggest more relevant "elses" would be the culture in US police forces (this is not an isolated or new incident)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Perhaps there is a desensitising in the ranks of the cops. perhaps the lack of accountability fosters these incidents and attitudes. the prevalence of guns and using guns certainly enters the equation.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This incident doesn't happen in the exact same circumstances with a white family.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I just think "fear that he's black and he'll probably shoot me" is a cop out. I don't think that's what you meant either Antipodean - I think you were naturally trying to get your head around this clusterfuck</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But I don't see the absolute need to find out why this individual did this - better to address the attitudes, SOPs, training, and behaviours of the police forces in the US as a whole to weed out these totally unacceptable and preventable incidences</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="595234" data-time="1467978992">
<div>
<p>True, but zero indicates they were good snipers. That was a VERY target rich environment & they managed to kill 5 people. Despite having several minutes where those they were trying to kill were in the open, often not moving, not knowing where they were.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Literally anyone with a decent rifle who had spent some time on a range was qualified to do this. More so when you listen to the footage & their fire was in the spray & pray category</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>yeah, replace the media word, "sniper" with "gunman" and a different image is presented</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tim" data-cid="595181" data-time="1467974149">
<div>
<p>Siam, I think that <strong>Mooshld (one of our more reasonable posters)</strong> is saying that if he reacted like then he must have some kind of completely unreasonable level fear going on. i.e. There is no way that the shooting can be explained a reasonable mindset.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I do not think that he is making excuses for the inexcusable.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Damned with faint praise.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="595234" data-time="1467978992"><p>True, but zero indicates they were good snipers. That was a VERY target rich environment & they managed to kill 5 people. Despite having several minutes where those they were trying to kill were in the open, often not moving, not knowing where they were.<br><br>
Literally anyone with a decent rifle who had spent some time on a range was qualified to do this. More so when you listen to the footage & their fire was in the spray & pray category</p></blockquote>
Fair enough, am on holiday so haven't read/watched much about it but heard the word "sniper" brandied about so assumed it was more calculated/professional then what it probably was. After watching American Sniper, no doubt that guy could have picked off 30+ civillians in 3-5 minutes if he wanted too. -
<p>One of the better (tasteless) tweets I've seen tonight:</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p> </p>
<p>This witness on CNN actually said, "Gunshots? Fired in Dallas? Can this be happening?" Correct, madam. JFK was killed with a crossbow.</p>
</blockquote> -
The US police are a trigger-happy lot regardless of race aren't they? My dad was in the states in the early 60s and he was told even way back then to keep his hands on the wheel if the cops came or he'd get his head blown off.
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="595257" data-time="1467982608">
<div>
<p>The US police are a trigger-happy lot <strong>regardless of race</strong> aren't they? My dad was in the states in the early 60s and he was told even way back then to keep his hands on the wheel if the cops came or he'd get his head blown off.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Yeah not so much this apparently</p>
<p> </p>
<p>*Edit: I know what your trying to say, but the way I read it kind of implied you don't need to consider race when really you do. Because apparently its so much worse when you do even the governor of one of the states said in his address that he doesn't believe it would have happened had the guy been white. </p> -
<p><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2vlbwVIAArmYf.jpg" alt="Cm2vlbwVIAArmYf.jpg"><br><br> :Bang_Head:</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="595234" data-time="1467978992"><p>True, but zero indicates they were good snipers. That was a VERY target rich environment & they managed to kill 5 people. Despite having several minutes where those they were trying to kill were in the open, often not moving, not knowing where they were.<br>
<br>
Literally anyone with a decent rifle who had spent some time on a range was qualified to do this. More so when you listen to the footage & their fire was in the spray & pray category</p></blockquote>
<br>
A very target rich environment but only cops killed...so that is a bit more than random pot shots hoping to get lucky -
There's something wrong with a country where the police pull someone over for a defective tail light and as a matter of policy approach the driver with a gun drawn. If the police have to, or feel they have to, use threats of deadly force just to follow up a routine safety inquiry then I think the trust between them and the public is broken.<br><br>
But this instance is much worse. When a man does something completely legal - reaching for his wallet in his own car, probably without even consciously thinking about what he's doing - and gets shot because of what the cop thinks he might be doing, the time has come for the police to ask themselves whether they themselves might be one of the problems. But the most sickening part was the cops then letting the man bleed out in front of his family without offering any assistance, or letting the family offer any comfort. That is just not humane. And then they handcuffed the woman, because she did... what exactly? She didn't kill anyone. She was at best a bystander, more accurately a victim.<br><br>
The whole thing is a disgrace coming from a country that presumes to lecture the rest of the world on freedom and justice.<br><br>
Personally, I've been to the US more times than I can count, but I'm done. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="595292" data-time="1468010692">
</p>
<div>
<p>The whole thing is a disgrace coming from a country that presumes to lecture the rest of the world on freedom and justice.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>NSFW - but if you've ever seen Jim Jeffries, you'd know that:</p>
<p> </p>
<p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mooshld" data-cid="595265" data-time="1467989503"><p>
Yeah not so much this apparently<br><br>
*Edit: I know what your trying to say, but the way I read it kind of implied you don't need to consider race when really you do. Because apparently its so much worse when you do even the governor of one of the states said in his address that he doesn't believe it would have happened had the guy been white.</p></blockquote>
<br>
Google David Kassick. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="595240" data-time="1467979290">
<div>
<p>But I don't see the absolute need to find out why this individual did this - better to address the attitudes, SOPs, training, and behaviours of the police forces in the US as a whole to weed out these totally unacceptable and preventable incidences</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>The problem is that because they don't have one singular Police force it sounds like the standards of recruiting and training are hugely varying across the entire country. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Coming from a law enforcement background, it's hard not to feel sorry for some of the cops in some of the cases (before anyone rips into me, I said <strong>some</strong>). I couldn't fathom the thought that if I stopped a car in the middle of the night that there was a decent chance that the occupants would be carrying a firearm and willing to use it against me. I spent a large chunk of my time in the job working on organised crime and gangs, and even though most NZ gang members would have easy access to firearms, most of them are staunchly against using them on the Police, and they're more for protection against other criminals. We're lucky in New Zealand that Police deaths are few and far between, whereas in the states, over a hundred cops a year are killed. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I watched a documentary with Vinnie Jones where he went and did a ride along with a team of cops who patrolled the worst streets in New Orleans, and they would roll around in a pack of 4 cars, and if one car stopped someone, all four cars stopped, such was the threat of gun violence against Police in that part of town. That particular team had one guy in hospital at the time of the documentary after being shot in a shootout. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>None of this of course excuses killing someone who is unarmed or not a threat, but it must certainly weigh on Police Officer's minds every time they stop a car, or every time someone makes a sudden movement. I'm lucky that I've never had a gun pulled on me, but I did have knife pulled on me once and it happens a lot quicker than you could ever imagine. There are a tonne of videos on youtube showing how quickly a cop can be shot at a routine traffic stop or elsewhere. </p> -
<p>I'm loathe to consider it institutionalised racism on behalf of the officers involved. America has a violent crime problem that is magnified by the preponderance of firearms. I can't imagine what it's like to operate in an environment where you're genuinely concerned about other people carrying firearms.</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="595771" data-time="1468146587">
<div>
<p>I'm loathe to consider it institutionalised racism on behalf of the officers involved. America has a violent crime problem that is magnified by the preponderance of firearms. I can't imagine what it's like to operate in an environment where you're genuinely concerned about other people carrying firearms.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>The Rodney King style instances, like the guy who was shot while prone on the ground would suggest there is a healthy amount of racial profiling there too</p>