ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?
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@booboo said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@MN5 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Beaver was getting quite hot under the collar there.
…….and good on him too, what a welcome change from the circle jerk Razor fluffers we’ve become so accustomed to.
I don’t like razor, but why not let him pick the players he wants? He was picked to be a winning coach and wants to pick players who play out of the country. This circle the wagons mentality from NZ rugby is shortsighted and is hurting your national team. Laughable that beaver thinks players have to sacrifice money play for the jersey. These are professional players!
I'm prepared to back Jake White over this disconnected waffle.
Sure, justify your viewpoint even if it means siding with a clown
It says something when White is more in touch with the vibe than you eh.
The vibe? Sorry, didn’t realize I was supposed to be vibing. With your provincial comps not doing well and rugby generally in decline in NZ picking players that will allow NZ to return to the top will incentivize youngsters to play and will pay off in the long term. It will also give more players exposure to rugby in places other than NZ and give them the chance to be noticed. Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
He got the job knowing his resources. He got what he wanted. He wants to change the goal posts for short term gain.
SA have made their choice, and parochialism is influencing some people's opinions. We did this, thus our way is the best...
Not at all. The point I was making is that if you give the coach what he wants, he’s more likely to produce his best effort. Treating him like a spoilt child might not be productive.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Picking any player he wants will result in more winning.
Assertion isn't an argument.
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@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@booboo said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@Bones said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@MN5 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Beaver was getting quite hot under the collar there.
…….and good on him too, what a welcome change from the circle jerk Razor fluffers we’ve become so accustomed to.
I don’t like razor, but why not let him pick the players he wants? He was picked to be a winning coach and wants to pick players who play out of the country. This circle the wagons mentality from NZ rugby is shortsighted and is hurting your national team. Laughable that beaver thinks players have to sacrifice money play for the jersey. These are professional players!
I'm prepared to back Jake White over this disconnected waffle.
Sure, justify your viewpoint even if it means siding with a clown
It says something when White is more in touch with the vibe than you eh.
The vibe? Sorry, didn’t realize I was supposed to be vibing. With your provincial comps not doing well and rugby generally in decline in NZ picking players that will allow NZ to return to the top will incentivize youngsters to play and will pay off in the long term. It will also give more players exposure to rugby in places other than NZ and give them the chance to be noticed. Give razor what he wants and judge him on that.
He got the job knowing his resources. He got what he wanted. He wants to change the goal posts for short term gain.
SA have made their choice, and parochialism is influencing some people's opinions. We did this, thus our way is the best...
Not at all. The point I was making is that if you give the coach what he wants, he’s more likely to produce his best effort. Treating him like a spoilt child might not be productive.
The spoilt child here is Razor. He knew the rules when he signed up. I'd be telling Razor go select and play the best players in Super Rugby to start with and see how that goes first.
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how exactly do we think NPC teams will attract overseas players (other than aus as they dont have their own domestic comp)? its semi pro for locals so the real dregs, those that truly just need to keep on the professional games radar
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Putting aside the Razor part of it, I’m in tentative support of us picking players while on longer term sabbaticals.
The article linked to earlier was talking about allowing players two seasons in the NH, and I’d be ok with us selecting them as long as it was part of (say) a 3-4 yr contract with 2 NH seasons. I’ll admit it is essentially a Giteau rule, just wrapped in an NZ contract. As I see it, this would help players earn more and it does seem true that NH teams (including. Japan) want 2 seasons with players.
I can see one potential benefit in that these players would stay part of the AB training and could still be selected, so we might not see the dramatic drop-offs that we’ve seen for other players. It does seem a bit of a holiday at the moment and that appears to have an impact.
The tricky part would be if someone decides they want out after their two NH seasons (ie does t want to return home). If that became a pattern (essentially, get two years overseas as an AB then jump off) then I don’t think I’d love the potential impact on players here.
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As I have said before this rule change appears to be tailored for about 3 or 4 players all of which are likely coming back soon, when that is announced we might have some clarity. In terms of sourcing others who are playing in Japan, Europe and UK, would there be that many who would be good enough to play for the All Blacks? Have often wondered about how many Kiwis in Aussie Super teams might be good enough. Even the Drua had a 10 who was one of Richie Mounga's relatives, who looked pretty good.
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I like a limited application of an overseas selection.
One thing I’m a little concerned about and it has only been exacerbated with the exit of SA based super teams, is the very limited exposure we have to overseas styles and the playing experience that comes with that.
Pro rugby today is a game of very fine margins and having a player that has played for example in France or England week in week out against their test players or with them provides an insight that we simply don’t get from coaches and players watching film.
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Maybe thats how we can have a draft, overseas players put their hat in the ring, sponsored by some company to offset their pay expectations, each teams get a couple of picks based on where they finished, try and make it a big thing in the offseason
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@antipodean said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
@W32 said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
Picking any player he wants will result in more winning.
Assertion isn't an argument.
Yeah, yeah. I thought it was a discussion. My bad.
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@ACT-Crusader said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
I like a limited application of an overseas selection.
One thing I’m a little concerned about and it has only been exacerbated with the exit of SA based super teams, is the very limited exposure we have to overseas styles and the playing experience that comes with that.
Pro rugby today is a game of very fine margins and having a player that has played for example in France or England week in week out against their test players or with them provides an insight that we simply don’t get from coaches and players watching film.
thats why coaches generally go overseas to get that experences not bring players back
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NZR's high performance manager, Chris Lendrum, has stated that selecting players from overseas would mean reduced contact time with them, and would necessitate using a simplified game plan to compensate for that. Combined with the poor form that many players display after returning from Japan, I see a rather weak case for selecting overseas players.
The players most talked about are Mo'unga and Frizzell. They are average players at test level, and we have better players in NZ.
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@OomPB said in ABs picking overseas players - inevitable?:
We have been through this many times.
Lord, protect me from these devious South African rugby prophets and the false gospel of Surf Jesus. Let us be like the humble beaver, in his willingness to sacrifice everything for that which is most holy, the Black Jersey.
[Ms. Ludwig XV 3 (83.MR.173), fol. 83. A Hunter and a Beaver, about 1270, Unknown artist/maker]Fun fact, beavers were genuinely seen as the representation of the “willingness to sacrifice anything that hinders the ability to devote oneself to Christ” in medieval Christian symbolism. So in the picture above, for example, the beaver bites off his own testicles (!) in order to get away from the hunter, with beaver testicles being seen as having medicinal value. I’m sure there’s a great joke in there, somewhere.
A Hunter and a Beaver (The J. Paul Getty Museum Collection)
A Hunter and a Beaver (The J. Paul Getty Museum Collection); about 1270; Unknown; Tempera colors, gold leaf, and ink; Leaf: 19.1 × 14.3 cm (7 1/2 × 5 5/8 in.); Ms. Ludwig XV 3 (83.MR.173), fol. 83
Apologies for the strange intervention, I saw some weird eschatological undertones in the post above and decided to run with it.
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Alex Powell: Forget Mo’unga, this is who NZ Rugby should break overseas rule for