All Blacks 2025
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@ARHS said in All Blacks 2025:
Not sure why Christie is so vilified on here.
See where you're coming from. Good, solid servant from the bench. Probably the best option for '23/24.
Proved to be a bit of a liability starting at Test level. Way better options now available in Ratima, Roigard & Hotham
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
When NZR signed a long-ish contract with him, I assumed the strategy was using him on the bench or providing an experienced backup allowing Robertson to blood new players at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
Robertson selected DMac as 1st choice 1st 5 from his first test, you know the less experienced guy who had not been the guy in 2023. And SP, the relatively green and inexperienced guy was selected at fullback. Barrett, the experienced backup on the bench.
So a tick, tick right?
Second test, the same selections. More ticks.
3rd, 4th and 5th tests DMac is still at 10. But we have a problem at fullback with Perofeta, so Tobertson selects Barrett at fullback and should’ve bit the bullet at that point and selected Jordan - which he eventually got to for the second Boks tests, the Bledisloe and all the bigger games for the NH tour. So new fullback blooded. Tick.
And SP also started a NH test at fullback. Tick.
So after Bledisloe I there is an issue with DMac, so he is replaced by Barrett for 3 of the final 5 tests as the starter. No tick.
There was intent and endeavour, with those selections, and some missed opportunities as well but hardly all wrong.
This season we will see a much improved Love (didn’t think he played that well last season) make his move. And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Everyone on here should be happy. The team is pretty settled.
2-3 years ago we literally didn't have a front row or a mid field. The game plan was chaotic.
Then Ryan arrived.Things are certainly better than they were mid-way through the Foster era.
But, I'll be pleased when we are Number 1 in the world. I'll be happy when we have the William Webb Ellis trophy safely back in the All Blacks Captain's hands. I'll be satisfied when there is daylight between ourselves and all other international sides in the world. That's the natural order of things.
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Yep it's time to challenge SA.
It's great having some runners up front. Williams Vaai Savea Sititi Roigard DMac.
We now need a centre who thinks about distribution -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
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Good post. After Bledisloe was the head-scratching point for me. Had his feet under the table, 1st year of a four year contact, a blank sheet to develop his squad, but decided to play safe with Barrett after the TRC was lost.
Ideal opportunity to give game time to form players - esp. Plummer and Proctor - but lacked the confidence or experience to do so.
Not the sort of structured, planned approach we were promised/expected. Hopefully this year...
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
A few weeks ago an Aussie commentator mentioned Harkin was in the mix for AB selection. That would be interesting.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
I think its pretty clear that Razor and co have zero interest in trying to replicate the AB's best loose trio ever.
Michael Jones, Alan Whetton and Zinzan Brooke say hi.
I don't really remember them being an established combo for the ABs.
Lots of Whetton, Jones, Shelford.
Then combos of Whetton, Jones, Brewer, Brooke and Earl.
My favourite was always JC, Richie and Rodders.
All kinda 7.5s ...
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
A few weeks ago an Aussie commentator mentioned Harkin was in the mix for AB selection. That would be interesting.
Wouldn't take any notice of an Aussie commentator. Someone has a good half of rugby, or even starts in super they seem be in mix for test rugby.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
Oh come on. Kemara is injured and JOC is ineligible isn't he? So that leaves Rihanna.
A few weeks ago an Aussie commentator mentioned Harkin was in the mix for AB selection. That would be interesting.
Yeah he's going great guns and it's been a few years since the bourna produced an AB, but he still feels like a 10 playing 15 to me. Do get kinda BB vibes about him, so very keen to see how he develops, keeps it up and next year could be his shot.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
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The Chiefs did it very well against MP on the weekend. Targeted certain players to run the ball at, took them out of the turnover zone and cleaned out aggressively. They went more direct and things opened up. I still think this is the key as opposed to running wide early and often
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The Chiefs did it very well against MP on the weekend. Targeted certain players to run the ball at, took them out of the turnover zone and cleaned out aggressively. They went more direct and things opened up. I still think this is the key as opposed to running wide early and often
I woud much prefer a slower and more targetted approach to creating space (then moving at pace to exploit that space) rather than move the ball fast and wide at every oppertunity and hope space appears somewhere.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
The Chiefs did it very well against MP on the weekend. Targeted certain players to run the ball at, took them out of the turnover zone and cleaned out aggressively. They went more direct and things opened up. I still think this is the key as opposed to running wide early and often
I woud much prefer a slower and more targetted approach to creating space (then moving at pace to exploit that space) rather than move the ball fast and wide at every oppertunity and hope space appears somewhere.
Be more direct. Makes it easier to control the breakdown and recycle, and less chance of turning the ball over
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
It is good tactics, but it's hardly new. That's the disturbing part for me: it takes us about a decade to adapt to fucking anything new. We're still talking about it as something to solve now, when they started it in fucking 2019!
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
While he can still pull out a good performance here and there, BBs best days are behind him. I think he is a liability to the development of the team as we move to 2027, Beaudy is taking time away from potential successors
When NZR signed a long-ish contract with him, I assumed the strategy was using him on the bench or providing an experienced backup allowing Robertson to blood new players at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
Robertson selected DMac as 1st choice 1st 5 from his first test, you know the less experienced guy who had not been the guy in 2023. And SP, the relatively green and inexperienced guy was selected at fullback. Barrett, the experienced backup on the bench.
So a tick, tick right?
Second test, the same selections. More ticks.
3rd, 4th and 5th tests DMac is still at 10. But we have a problem at fullback with Perofeta, so Tobertson selects Barrett at fullback and should’ve bit the bullet at that point and selected Jordan - which he eventually got to for the second Boks tests, the Bledisloe and all the bigger games for the NH tour. So new fullback blooded. Tick.
And SP also started a NH test at fullback. Tick.
> So after Bledisloe I there is an issue with DMac, so he is replaced by Barrett for 3 of the final 5 tests as the starter. No tick.
There was intent and endeavour, with those selections, and some missed opportunities as well but hardly all wrong.
This season we will see a much improved Love (didn’t think he played that well last season) make his move. And there is definitely one other on the coaches radar, but don’t want to jinx it by calling it out early
That right there is where I lost faith. Up until that point, I thought I could see a plan for the future. There was a fair bit of crap, but there were some genuinely excellent patches - e.g. the first half of Boks 1, they didn't look like they could stay with us, and we were looking good against the rush for the first time in forever.
As soon as we went back to Beauden I had no idea what he was trying to achieve anymore. Then when Beauden was injured and we beat Ireland with McKenzie central to it, I thought okay, back on track - and he fucking went and dropped McKenzie again. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
It is good tactics, but it's hardly new. That's the disturbing part for me: it takes us about a decade to adapt to fucking anything new. We're still talking about it as something to solve now, when they started it in fucking 2019!
I feel your pain...
And given it's still the same problem under the innovative, fresh thinking and innovative Robertson it's only become more annoying.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward pack on for the second 40. It's largely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
From what I've seen the Saffas are basically using heavy rotation of their starting line up to keep players fresh. Their players often get rotated at the 35 to 50 mark compared to ours at 60 - 70. The use of our bench was often poor last year. The mindset is completely different.
This nullifies completly the whole "run them off their feet" gameplan which we still persist with and we haven't got a plan B in the back pocket to counter this. It's tactically brilliant (albiet with calculated risk should 2 backs get injured) that we haven't got an answer for.
In short the AB's need to find a way to make space on the field that doesn't rely on players being out of position due to fatigue because when you can basically sub on a whole new forward pack no-one is fatigued.
This isn't the thread for it but I really dislike the rules around the use of the bench in modern footy, allowing teams to substitute an almost entirely new forward packs on for the second 40. It's completely removed one of the most challenging parts of the game - executing your skills in the final 10 minutes when the lungs are burning and the legs feel like jelly to get the win.
Me too, but you can't change the rules you can only change how you play.
You can pick like for like and play them at their own game.
You can try something as simple as targeting players you know won't be subbed. Run our guys at their backs all day, then sub our guys who are running at their backs, and run at them some more.What we did, is not sub until about 70 minutes and pick a specialist winger on the bench. Fuck. Off.
