All Blacks 2025
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With Moorby rumoured to be coming back to the Canes, I wonder if the AB coaches have had a word. I know they were interested in him last year but he had already committed to Montpellier. If he’s coming back, they will have him in their sights but he will be in a similar boat to Lester, will likely have to prove himself again in the NPC.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Sabbaticals are fine, just don't parachute them back in unless they are 100 test greats: aaron smith / mccaw / nonu level - don't select them until they've played locally again and dominated. That in itself will somewhat reduce how attractive it is to a player.
Savea was okay last year - but only okay - he was outplayed all season by a 21 year old rookie. And let's not forget that said rookie would have been much more likely to get his chance if Savea hadn't been selected.This is a pervasive view, but I don’t think it holds much value any more given the quality of play around the world, even in places like Japan. The club scene there is far superior to what they get from their national team. And this is even more so with wavering quality at Super and NPC levels.
At the individual level, yes Ardie had a dip in the black jersey last year after an immense 2023 test season. But looking at his output this Super season he has been a real standout and looked fitter. His level of involvement for an openside has been at a high level which for me will translate to the rest arena - given his experience and understanding of test rugby. Now this won’t work for all players, but for Ardie I have very few concerns.
So, he plays super and test in nz and is world player of the year.
then he comes back from playing in Japan and by his own high standards is really mediocre in tests.
then after that test season he's used as a warm-up and a super pre-season, he's back to tearing it up in super.
Based on that evidence, we can expect him to come back from japan and be average for a test season, then be good again the year after?
Except... he turns 32 this year, so will be getting on a bit by then - Mccaw retired at 34, and he's a player quite a bit less reliant on the physical explosiveness etc that declines with age. Kronfeld was 29. Jones 33. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus just go with his nickname of Big Jim
Mate his Nic is Jim the Difference, DMac was Big Jim.
Just call him Jim Diff.
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
All I’ve heard is that Big Jim looks to be in. Holland in. No blackadder.
Fusitua in. Proctor in. Reiko as a wing/centre.
Either Christian Lio Willie or Hoskins. Still have made the final call.
Forgot Kirifi tooIs Big Jim being selected as a midfielder or winger?
He should replace Telea at 14 I reckon...
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He has no top line pace. I think he's a 12 or impact player off the bench.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
He has no top line pace. I think he's a 12 or impact player off the bench.
Hasn't stopped Telea or Reece getting capped.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones any NZ player plying their trade outside of NZ is by definition not giving any value to NZ.
I'm also on record about his form this year and I've routinely said he should be in the 23 as a super sub so I'm not sure where the "don't like the guy" shit comes from.
And for the record I've never been a fan of sabbaticals. Ex-All Blacks can make money after their representative career is over.
Quite frankly I'm forming the opinion that some long standing All Blacks are hanging around too long thanks in part to this sort of accommodation - impacting new All Blacks' development and our competitiveness.
Yeah I'm talking about NZ rugby, he definitely provides huge value there. You're focusing on the AB's. He's got a fucking massive fan base outside of GOM's shouting at clouds on an internet forum.
What tangible outcomes does that provide whilst he's in Japan?
The tangible outcome ofnot having to fork out probably hundreds of thousands more to have a player earn his keep in NZ for his whole career, as well as building an even bigger fan base. Dollars to donuts there's new AB/NZ rugby fans tuning in due to having him enter their "sphere".
Got it; the organisation could've been saved from losing millions of dollars per annum by having an All Black or two play elsewhere.
And those new fans, all eight of them, who hadn't heard of the All Blacks or seen highlights before one on sabbatical played in their competition.
We should send them all OS with these sorts of returns.
Pithy remarks will be sure to convince the rest of the board when you're the NZR CEO.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks 2025:
Presumably he was going for good if he didn’t get 2
Then "thanks for your service". He's not the 🐐 and considering his form last year, we'd be better off without him.
He's bloody good and worth a shit load to NZ rugby. I'm more than ok with loyal servants getting "extras" if it gets them sticking around for over a decade (especially if it gets them playing out their career in NZ).
Yeah agreed, no issue with sabbaticals personally.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones any NZ player plying their trade outside of NZ is by definition not giving any value to NZ.
I'm also on record about his form this year and I've routinely said he should be in the 23 as a super sub so I'm not sure where the "don't like the guy" shit comes from.
And for the record I've never been a fan of sabbaticals. Ex-All Blacks can make money after their representative career is over.
Quite frankly I'm forming the opinion that some long standing All Blacks are hanging around too long thanks in part to this sort of accommodation - impacting new All Blacks' development and our competitiveness.
Yeah I'm talking about NZ rugby, he definitely provides huge value there. You're focusing on the AB's. He's got a fucking massive fan base outside of GOM's shouting at clouds on an internet forum.
What if it was Aaron Smith? Anyone would fucking bite your hand off to have been able to keep him in NZ and let him feather his nest briefly overseas.
If NZ rugby can keep superstars in the system, whilst saving money on wages and allowing players to feather their nest, I struggle to see how that's such an awful thing. I much prefer the likes of White lock getting a few more years in NZ and providing huge value rather than fucking off at the pinnacle of their career.
He's a pretty fucking incredible rugby player, shocking people are still arguing he's out of form etc, can't help but feel some people don't have a fucking clue sometimes.
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@WoodysRFC said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@zedsdeadbaby said in All Blacks 2025:
Presumably he was going for good if he didn’t get 2
Then "thanks for your service". He's not the 🐐 and considering his form last year, we'd be better off without him.
He's bloody good and worth a shit load to NZ rugby. I'm more than ok with loyal servants getting "extras" if it gets them sticking around for over a decade (especially if it gets them playing out their career in NZ).
Yeah agreed, no issue with sabbaticals personally.
I've no issue with the idea and using it for those that have provided great value and years long service. Not happy if it is used in conjunction with automatic AB selection though.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
He has no top line pace. I think he's a 12 or impact player off the bench.
Hasn't stopped Telea or Reece getting capped.
In terms of pace it's Tele'a > Reece > Tavatavanawai. For me Tele'a should be the bare minimum required for a starting All Black wing.
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The biggest issue for mine out of 2024 from the All Blacks was discipline (15 x cards) 1st test against the Springboks was super costly
This area has been a downward spiral since the 2019 RWC ,staggers me that it’s not talked about more -
@Canes4life never talked about those two. But pretty sure they’re in. Heard there’s a few players covering injury. Bell is one of them.
Sotutu v CLW will be interesting. I thought they’d cut Hoskins all together. Obviously he’s improved on whatever they were looking for. -
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never talked about those two. But pretty sure they’re in. Heard there’s a few players covering injury. Bell is one of them.
Sotutu v CLW will be interesting. I thought they’d cut Hoskins all together. Obviously he’s improved on whatever they were looking for.I wonder if he took a knock in that game, didn't look like himself.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones any NZ player plying their trade outside of NZ is by definition not giving any value to NZ.
I'm also on record about his form this year and I've routinely said he should be in the 23 as a super sub so I'm not sure where the "don't like the guy" shit comes from.
And for the record I've never been a fan of sabbaticals. Ex-All Blacks can make money after their representative career is over.
Quite frankly I'm forming the opinion that some long standing All Blacks are hanging around too long thanks in part to this sort of accommodation - impacting new All Blacks' development and our competitiveness.
Yeah I'm talking about NZ rugby, he definitely provides huge value there. You're focusing on the AB's. He's got a fucking massive fan base outside of GOM's shouting at clouds on an internet forum.
What tangible outcomes does that provide whilst he's in Japan?
The tangible outcome ofnot having to fork out probably hundreds of thousands more to have a player earn his keep in NZ for his whole career, as well as building an even bigger fan base. Dollars to donuts there's new AB/NZ rugby fans tuning in due to having him enter their "sphere".
Got it; the organisation could've been saved from losing millions of dollars per annum by having an All Black or two play elsewhere.
And those new fans, all eight of them, who hadn't heard of the All Blacks or seen highlights before one on sabbatical played in their competition.
We should send them all OS with these sorts of returns.
Pithy remarks will be sure to convince the rest of the board when you're the NZR CEO.
I'm sure they will grab any flotsam as a substitute lifeboat after your tenure.
Look, I’m not against players earning overseas or NZR finding creative ways to retain talent. I am against the myth that sending someone to Japan for a season somehow builds the brand, strengthens the jersey, and saves rugby. Especially if they're automatic picks after playing in less demanding competitions where the evidence is they come back worse.
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@WoodysRFC said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones any NZ player plying their trade outside of NZ is by definition not giving any value to NZ.
I'm also on record about his form this year and I've routinely said he should be in the 23 as a super sub so I'm not sure where the "don't like the guy" shit comes from.
And for the record I've never been a fan of sabbaticals. Ex-All Blacks can make money after their representative career is over.
Quite frankly I'm forming the opinion that some long standing All Blacks are hanging around too long thanks in part to this sort of accommodation - impacting new All Blacks' development and our competitiveness.
Yeah I'm talking about NZ rugby, he definitely provides huge value there. You're focusing on the AB's. He's got a fucking massive fan base outside of GOM's shouting at clouds on an internet forum.
What if it was Aaron Smith? Anyone would fucking bite your hand off to have been able to keep him in NZ and let him feather his nest briefly overseas.
If NZ rugby can keep superstars in the system, whilst saving money on wages and allowing players to feather their nest, I struggle to see how that's such an awful thing. I much prefer the likes of White lock getting a few more years in NZ and providing huge value rather than fucking off at the pinnacle of their career.
He's a pretty fucking incredible rugby player, shocking people are still arguing he's out of form etc, can't help but feel some people don't have a fucking clue sometimes.
Who has suggested he's out of form in this year's SR? @Virgil I think we have an early contender for strawman of the year award.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
strengthens the jersey, and saves rugby. Especially if they're automatic picks after playing in less demanding competitions where the evidence is they come back worse.
Speaking of straw men.
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never talked about those two. But pretty sure they’re in. Heard there’s a few players covering injury. Bell is one of them.
Sotutu v CLW will be interesting. I thought they’d cut Hoskins all together. Obviously he’s improved on whatever they were looking for.I expect Lakai, Sititi and RD locked in, so if they go for Kirifi and one of CLW/Hoss, then 6s will be two from Finau/Parker/Jacobson.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@chchfanatic said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life never talked about those two. But pretty sure they’re in. Heard there’s a few players covering injury. Bell is one of them.
Sotutu v CLW will be interesting. I thought they’d cut Hoskins all together. Obviously he’s improved on whatever they were looking for.I expect Lakai, Sititi and RD locked in, so if they go for Kirifi and one of CLW/Hoss, then 6s will be two from Finau/Parker/Jacobson.
I think Parker would have been a certainty, and apparently his injury is being managed by AB medical staff. Just not sure if he is recovered in time for French series.
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@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens as a bolter?
I think he would be in the picture had he not been injured by that dog act from a grub at the end of last season.
Im not saying I can walk on water, but I am bigger than Jesus Christ.
