17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup
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@chimoaus Without the sevens connection, there wouldn't be a possibility to change countries at all. This eligibility loophole only came into existence once sevens became an Olympic sport.
I do care if someone represents multiple countries (without at least a 3 year stand down), for the simple reason that a player who has played for one country (say the ABs) and then wants to play for another (say, England) can take a whole lot of precious information with him to the new team. In the hypothetical case that Brad Shields had played for the ABs this year, and would qualify immediately for England next year, just think what info he could give the England coach & squad about game plans, special moves, training methods etc! Most people only think of former ABs with PI heritage playing for Fiji, Tonga or Samoa, but eligibility rules apply always to all countries!
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@stargazer said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@chimoaus Without the sevens connection, there wouldn't be a possibility to change countries at all. This eligibility loophole only came into existence once sevens became an Olympic sport.
I do care if someone represents multiple countries (without at least a 3 year stand down), for the simple reason that a player who has played for one country (say the ABs) and then wants to play for another (say, England) can take a whole lot of precious information with him to the new team. In the hypothetical case that Brad Shields had played for the ABs this year, and would qualify immediately for England next year, just think what info he could give the England coach & squad about game plans, special moves, training methods etc! Most people only think of former ABs with PI heritage playing for Fiji, Tonga or Samoa, but eligibility rules apply always to all countries!
That bold bit kind of placates your own point. Anyone removed from the set up for 3 years probably know sweet FA about whats happening in what would be a team 3 years down the road. This law is about to become 5 years as on 2021 as well.
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@raznomore said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@stargazer said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@chimoaus Without the sevens connection, there wouldn't be a possibility to change countries at all. This eligibility loophole only came into existence once sevens became an Olympic sport.
I do care if someone represents multiple countries (without at least a 3 year stand down), for the simple reason that a player who has played for one country (say the ABs) and then wants to play for another (say, England) can take a whole lot of precious information with him to the new team. In the hypothetical case that Brad Shields had played for the ABs this year, and would qualify immediately for England next year, just think what info he could give the England coach & squad about game plans, special moves, training methods etc! Most people only think of former ABs with PI heritage playing for Fiji, Tonga or Samoa, but eligibility rules apply always to all countries!
That bold bit kind of placates your own point. Anyone removed from the set up for 3 years probably know sweet FA about whats happening in what would be a team 3 years down the road. This law is about to become 5 years as on 2021 as well.
Not sure what you mean with "placating my own point". My point was clearly that I don't agree with someone changing the country they want to represent without a 3 year stand down. Implicitly, that means that I don't care/care less with a 3 year stand down.
Anyway, I'm not so sure about the bit I bolded in your post. The residency rule is changing from 3 to 5 years, but that's something different from the stand down rule in case of changing the country you want to play for (which isn't necessarily linked to residency). Or are both changing?
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I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
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@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
Nonu's name has been mentioned by who though? People on internet forums, that don't understand the olympic loophole randomly listing Pasifika players no longer playing in NZ?
Nonu will be aged about 36 by the time the small Olympic loophole window occurs which would then maybe allow him to to then represent Samoa at 15s aged 37. (If the Samoan 7s coach was prepared to risk their Olympic qualification to shoehorn in an unsuitably over-muscled & old 15s specialist for one last hurrah).
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I also suspect Duncan Johnstone doesn't understand the Olympic loopholes.
Piutau isn't advocating for a change in current eligibilty rules (that I have read), he's just publicly stated that in approx 18 months time he intends to exploit the current olympic loophole in a desire to play for Tonga at the world cup in 2 years time.
This loophole existed before Charles decided to leave NZ in 2015.
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Damn.
That article also completely undermines my point about Piutau not advocating to change current rules; "Piutau has told the Daily Mail that administrators need to match the laws used by their rugby league counterparts"My apologies Duncan ......
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"Piutau has told the Daily Mail that administrators need to match the laws used by their rugby league counterparts"
If accurate (it is the Daily Mail) administrators need to tell Piutau where to get off, no way do we need a relaxing of international rules, the fact the IOC have created this hole is one thing, but making it easier aint the way to go.
That said, I have always thought a one way rule form tier 1 to 2 should have a different set of requirements, although then you have a line at which time a team is no longer tier 2, or a team drops form 1 to 2....
Thought Johnstone made some good points in his article.
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I'd be happy for Frank Halai to switch back to Tonga, because he is properly Tongan.
I can understand why these players would be advocating for a blanket change rather than having to go through the loophole, because only 10% of the fuckers who 'indicated an interest in switching" last time actually were prepared to front up and sacrifice some lucre while they spent a few months squeezing through that loophole. The loophole was too small once money was considered.
Personally, I quite like that there is a bit of a barrier to switch, that players have to make a bit of a sacrifice to 'follow their dreams". Forego some pay, risk an injury etc.
Maybe Piutau will be rich enough in 18 months time to do this, being the highest paid player in the world.
I don't rate their chances of getting through a change. People on forums will tease the celtic nations that "it was changed back in 2000 because the PIs were beating the lower ranked T1 teams". But rugby is growing, why would Georgia, Romania, Canada, USA etc want that rule changed?
If the PIs sort out their governance they'll get more votes at IRB council and might have a chance of advancing their wishes.
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@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
It would be a massive coup for Tonga considering he is Samoan....
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Agree with much that has already been posted. I think the arguments that have emerged since Charles Piutau's wish to play for Tonga was published, have centred around the question of whether World Rugby should allow the same kind of eligibility rules as league (allowing easy country hopping), i.e. an eligibility rule change (instead of only the 7s loophole).
What would also annoy me - if the rules were changed to allow players to hop countries - is that not only former ABs who were born in Fiji, Tonga or Samoa and lived there during at least their childhood years would be able to play for those countries, but also players of Island heritage, who have never lived there. To me, commitment to a certain cultural heritage is not the same as commitment to a country (i.e. national heritage).
Basically, this is the same thing that annoys me about uncapped players becoming immediately eligible for a country under the (grand)parent rule!I've also seen the argument that having these former ABs in the PI squads would help develop the game in the PI nations. How exactly? Because they would attract more sponsors and the money would go to development programmes? Isn't WR already pouring money into those programmes? And what if that money disappears in the pockets of administrators?
If these players want to help develop rugby in the PI nations, then they can take up coaching in the Islands after retirement as a player!In the unrelated discussion of revenue sharing, I read the opinion of one former Samoan player about how important playing for Samoa is for local players. It gives them the opportunity to showcase their talent and skill on the international stage in the hope of scoring a club contract overseas and become a well-paid professional player. How is that going to happen if former internationals of other countries are going to take those spots in the national squad?
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@rapido said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
Nonu's name has been mentioned by who though?
Mentioned by The New Zealand Herald, TVNZ, Stuff, and the UK Express (and maybe some I missed.).
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@raznomore said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
It would be a massive coup for Tonga considering he is Samoan....
That's where I was mistaken. I thought he was a New Zealander.
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He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
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I am a New Zealander first and foremost but I am also Samoan. I have a problem with people switching allegiances at the drop of a hat like Fafita, Fusitua and Taumalolo did. Tonie Carroll was the worst for me as he didn't go an play for a minnow, he switched from the Kiwis to Australia.
But this is something different and I guess, as I mentioned in another thread, the older I get the more of an intrinsic pull I feel to my Island background. But I think this is different in that the players we are talking about are already lost to NZ. Not all are cast offs, Nonu could probably still walk into the ABs midfield at 36 and Piutau still has a lot to offer at his young age. But many of these players who could switch allegiances are over the hill, out of the picture and out of the set up. If there is a minimum stand down period of 3 years I think let them go. Let them represent a minnow. If the world cup is more hotly contested because of stronger PI teams the greater the spectacle it will be.
Where I have an issue is the potential for a player to switch from Ab's to England or Australia.
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@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
Does he have something that ties him to Japan?
Stuff
