Dan Bailey
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="469010" data-time="1421889849">
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<p>* - Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't.<br>
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<p>I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.</p>
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<p>I was watching X-fit games when I still had FoxSports, and they had dudes counting reps for each thing and "no-repping" people occasionally. I know it should be pretty obvious with things like a squat puts hips below knees or something, but that too can be subjective.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="469015" data-time="1421891010">
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<p>I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.</p>
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<p>I was watching X-fit games when I still had FoxSports, and they had dudes counting reps for each thing and "no-repping" people occasionally. I know it should be pretty obvious with things like a squat puts hips below knees or something, but that too can be subjective.</p>
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<p>Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? Anything with a judge is not a sport then? Lets rule out Cricket, baseball, and figure skating then :)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="469010" data-time="1421889849">
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<p>Yes*, sort of, yes*, yes, yes.<br><br>
Triathlon is at the elite level (at any distance short of stupid, i.e. Ironman) for people who aren't good at cycling, running or swimming. At Ironman it's just for sadists. The rest you have to be the best at something specific. Anyone who thinks weightlifting isn't hasn't done a C&J or snatch. Because this is more impressive:<br>
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- Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't.<br><br>
I remember when basketball was going to be the next big thing and player numbers were exploding - easy to do from a small base...<br><br>
From my perspective anything that keeps people motivated to exercise is a good thing. I just laugh when people are drinking from the kool aid</p>
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<p>I'm not drinking from the Kool Aid, I'm just amused at the narrow definition of sport.</p>
- Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't.<br><br>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="469015" data-time="1421891010"><p>I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.</p></blockquote> <br>Exactly.<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469017" data-time="1421893264"><p>Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? Anything with a judge is not a sport then? Lets rule out Cricket, baseball, and figure skating then :)</p></blockquote><br>To me all three are past times. Cricket and baseball are ways to waste days drinking. Seems almost ungentlemanly to put in an effort. Some are better at it than others, but I'd classify them towards the pub end of sporting endeavour (darts and snooker, etc.)
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<p>hhmm, ruck rulings could be considered subjective....</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469017" data-time="1421893264">
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<p>Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? </p>
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<p>That's a good way of looking at the subjectivity of sports we tend to take for granted. Let me expand a little on what I mean, which is mostly due to my familiarity with cricket over CrossFit.</p>
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<p>I know the sort of shit cricket umpires go through to become qualified enough for the level at which they adjudicate. Its a sport that has been around for a long time, so it has developed and implemented changes to Laws and Regulations as it sees fit. For the guys at the top levels, an approved review system is in place (where India aren't concerned) that allows them to have any clangers overturned.</p>
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<p>Another key factor is that you have the same pair of umpires adjudicating the whole game, so they need to hold their judgement fairly consistently.</p>
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<p>The judges at the X-Fit games just looked like they were just local gym (box?) owners or something. I have no idea who they are, what their qualifications* are, or what governing board they report to. I assume there is a process of selecting them for the top notch competitions.</p>
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<p>And you have one judge per athlete by the looks of things. And what if the two of you don't happen to get on?</p>
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<p>The things like rope climb, where you have to tap the top of the frame or whatever - pretty straightforward. Things like pull ups <em>should</em> be pretty straightforward too, assuming the head or shoulders need to reach a certain level. Squats must be as well, when you need to get your hips parallel with your knees.</p>
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<p>But to me there is still a margin of error, and no review system that could suit the immediacy of the situation.</p>
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<p>If you get no-repped, you have to do it again. You come second by a couple of metres across the line, and stiff shit.</p>
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<p>OK, maybe its your fault for leaving any doubt whatsoever about that rep being completed. But can you get a video replay showing it was a proper rep? Does it change the result? If the guy judging you happened to be mates with the eventual winner, is there going to be controversy?</p>
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<p>From what I've seen, it looks like everyone is about fair play and are the kind of self-motivated exercise junkies who don't want to cut corners for the sake of winning. The whole point about CrossFit is competing against yourself on the clock, right?</p>
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<p>But popularity and entertainment mean money, and ego, and eventually the stakes rise higher at the top levels.</p>
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<p>And once you're not competing against yourself on the clock, and the difference between one no-rep can mean part of your income, you're going to have people start to push it.</p>
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<p>* I assume there are qualifications, though the qualification process for XFit instructions has been notably and very publicly scorned.</p> -
Good post. <br><br>
Judges go through qualifications and get practical experience. There are iffy judges at the lower levels, say at the Open, so to combat that all submissions have to be videoed. <br><br>
Top results (and many others, but not all) are reviewed by online judges, and discrepancies in the prescribed movements are noted. Reps can be taken away, and you can be disqualified (has been a few noteworthy DQs, and to rub salt in the wound they release the videos). <br><br>
I've done the 1st level coaches course, and it's not too difficult - especially if you have xFit experience and know the movements. I was going to volunteer in the Auckland event CFAK puts on, but buying a house got in the way. <br><br>
There are more advanced courses, and then you need to get experience. You get a better standard at the regional level, still possible to get a shitty judge but they are reviewed in real time and you can see the odd correction on the fly. <br><br>
If you don't get on with a judge and argue with them, you can get kicked out of the comp (they put a video up of a guy who yelled at his judge and was generally a dick, and they humiliated him and banned him from future events)<br><br>
Once you get to the games the judging is not an issue, and the athletes know what they have to do. The judges here are very experienced and well drilled. You get the odd WTF moment, but it's usually from the athletes. A notable one was Maddox and rope climbs, he just couldn't get that he had to lower himself under control, and couldn't let go of the rope until he was below the blue line. Three no reps, that he had to re climb, event over for him. <br><br>
So there's no subjective judging, I guess the challenge is ensuring the movement standards are met when the athletes are moving fast - but that's an issue in any sport with a judge. <br><br>
So basically the main issues with judging are at the Open level, but if you cheat to get to regionals you are going to look pretty foolish because there is nowhere to hide. <br><br>
Am sure I've missed stuff. I know that in 2014 they started putting chips on the athletes to improve the precision, so as it get bigger it will improve. <br><br>
I'll post some example movement standards so you see what the judges are looking for, it's all very clear. -
<p>Actually, some sort of IR/beacon technology in appropriate spots e.g. wrist band, head band, waist band would be a really good way to do it if required. Take any subjectivity out of it.</p>
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<p>Rope climb is one that you just wouldn't want to fuck up. If I was that Maddox bloke I'd be taking my sweet time.</p> -
<p>I found this an interesting read....</p>
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<div>CrossFit is not a sport; it is a competition. Sports are a zero-sum game with the ability to defend against your opponent. There are winners, but more importantly, there are losers. In CrossFit, there is winner, but there are no losers.</div>
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<div>All sports are competitions, but not all competitions are sports. Sports can be between individuals or teams. For my purposes, all of the sports and competitions I discuss require athleticism. Athletes train for and participate in a sport and/or competition and their participation is enhanced by an increase in physical strength in multiple joints and muscles.</div>
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<div>Many competitions are mistakenly identified as sports because our socially liberal society wants everyone to feel included in sports. We are moving past the generation of loyalists and the focus is on the individual and how the individual feels.</div>
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<div>In the CrossFit “feel good about yourself†environment, while there are no losers, there are only people who don’t qualify for the next level. In baseball, basketball, football, etc., you have one winner and one loser in every single game. Forget feelings.</div>
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<div>CrossFit competitions are based on a golf score. There is no head-to-head element. So what if they change that? What if they have brackets and go head-to-head like in March Madness NCAA basketball? That will never happen because their growth has diluted their brand, which is perhaps their weakest link.</div>
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<div>But it still would not be a sport due to the nature of their events. While competing at CrossFit, there is nothing you can do to directly defend against your opponent. A sport has both elements: zero-sum and a defense.</div>
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<div>CrossFit is not the only physical event these days that is a competition rather than a sport. Included in this category is Olympic lifting, power lifting, and gymnastics, all of which make up the disciplines of CrossFit.</div>
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<div>The straying of Generation-Y and Millennials from defensive and zero-sum games presents a weakness that bleeds into other aspects of modern society. Generation-Y and Millennials are presented with so many options that they are unable to make a decision. Ask any high school coach his opinion on multi-sport athletes.</div>
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<div>With very few exceptions, you can only be average when your focus is divided across three sports. You can only excel when you focus on one with prescribed strength and conditioning.</div>
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<div>But parents want their children to earn sports scholarships to expensive colleges. Basketball only allows five players on the court at once. Baseball only allows nine at a time. Football allows the most and often receives higher funding and participation in public schools, depending on the district and its history.</div>
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<div>Many parents and their children hedge their bets, play three sports and hope for a scholarship in one. Chances of a scholarship for the truly gifted and deserving athlete would be much higher if he focused on just one sport.</div>
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<div>CrossFit does the same for the young adult. Rather than pick one discipline, or even rotate them seasonally, they try to do ten things at once. You cannot perform optimally at all ten domains concurrently. They use different energy systems and you cannot have your best performance in all, together.</div>
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<div>You cannot be both the strongest (measured by maximal effort/weight lifted and fueled by the ATP-CP system) and have the most endurance (measured by time in a distance run/row/bike/swim and fueled by the oxidative system). Practically speaking, you cannot compete in a power lifting meet one week and a triathlon the next and expect to win at both.</div>
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<div>These trends have now hit our most impressionable group of young movers. Many youth sports leagues no longer keep score. Everyone receives a high five and certificate of participation. There are no winners and losers.</div>
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<div>We learn through losing. We excel through specializing. Losing does not mean we are done playing. It means we figure out what went wrong and innovate to do better next time. Specializing does not mean that we do not share information for systemic improvements. It means we take the necessary time to learn something in detail so we can explain it to someone else and make more informed decisions.</div>
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<div>Today, we see large turnovers in employees. Despite the unemployment rate, Generation-Y and Millennials, compared with earlier generations, are more likely to leave their jobs if they’re not happy, even if another offer isn’t immediately available.</div>
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<div>So what does all this mean? We are overwhelmed with options and unable to make decisions. We think more about the present than long term and we play heavily on our emotions. We want to feel good now, rather than risk and learn more, later.</div>
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<div>We are missing out on learning some of the greatest lessons of life through sports. Sports are the safest ways to learn at a young age. Kids do not have to risk food, shelter, or family to take a risk. Everything, but the lessons learned, are left on the playing field. The lessons are limitless, but include:</div>
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<div>-Learning to be adaptable</div>
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<div>-Working as a member of a team</div>
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<div>-Separation of personal life from task at hand</div>
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<div>-Learning the relationship between leaders and followers</div>
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<div>-Performing under pressure</div>
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<div>-Responding to loss</div>
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<div>-Persevering</div>
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<div>-Understanding that yelling will result in being kicked out of the game</div>
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<div>-Having the ability to shake hands, win or lose</div>
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<div>Parents, tell your toddlers’ coaches to keep score and teach your youngest children the lesson of loss. Encourage your high school athletes to pick one sport by their junior year. Allow them to play pickup games of the others, but to focus on getting really good at one before they graduate. As for CrossFit, just leave it alone. It’s a trend and its fire will burn out on its own</div>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://elitedaily.com/sports/the-death-of-sports-how-competitions-like-crossfit-are-weakening-america/'>http://elitedaily.com/sports/the-death-of-sports-how-competitions-like-crossfit-are-weakening-america/</a></p> -
<div>That's article is dumber that a bag full of hammers.</div>
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<div>According to that genius, no athletic events - or even swimming - are real sports, just competitions, because you can't defend against an opponent. That's just stupid, and a very narrow view of what sport is.</div>
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<div>No losers in Crossfit? Tell that to athletes not on the podium in the Crossfit games, or that didn't even make it out of Regionals - or didn't even make it to Regionals! Crossfit even has team events, so the points about working as a team, leadership, etc are bollocks too.</div>
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<div>As for the comment about learning to be adaptable, my god. In Regionals and the Games, the Corssfit athletes have no idea what events/movements will be required until the day of competition - the ultimate in being adaptable.</div>
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<div>Like Hooroo, I suspect this person is confused about the sport version of Crossfit, and the general training in a gym version.</div> -
<p>As I said, I found it an interesting viewpoint. I don't know enough about cross-fit to form an opinion myself but have the vague concept of 'whoever exercises the best wins' in the back of my mind.</p>
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<p>As research I googled 'why crossfit is not a sport' and found it to be a very popular subject of debate.</p>
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<p>Like it or not Kirwan, you are probably arguing against popular (if uneducated) opinion on this one. There are people who will argue that chess is a sport, or even golf, and semantics will get in the way of the intangible general feeling of what the public view of a sport v a competitive pastime is.</p> -
<p>I don't think she's saying "<em>just</em> competitions". I think she's making a distinction about the differences between beating someone else directly (on the field) versus beating them indirectly (on the clock).</p>
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<p>However she's quite derisive of Crossfit in general in terms of benefit to young adults. What she's missing is that, except for the elite few who get into college, there are few sports available to young adults except what they can get out of local competitions or gyms etc.</p>
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<p>I think for kids, the lesson about beating someone else comes more easily than the ability to objectively analyse and improve your own performance. Particularly in the USA where sporting ability is rated so much higher than academic achievement for huge parts of the community i.e. those who can't otherwise afford higher education.</p>
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<p>So from her point of view, competitive sport on-field is going to deliver better results for kids. Why she's then mixing it up with discussions about the benefits of crossfit for young adults, as if sport is some kind of panacea for the problems of a generation, is a mystery.</p> -
<p>Using her own main point against her, there is absolutely ways to fend off your opponent in many Crossfit events. The simplest one is only rest when they rest, and start just before they do - a type of defence.</p>
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<p>I use a basic version of that when I workout to push myself. I pick a rabbit and a tortoise (someone to chase, and someone to not let past me) and use that to work harder. At the games, you can see them use similar strategies to keep ahead of their opponents.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="469089" data-time="1421961928">
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<p>There are people who will argue that chess is a sport, or even golf, and semantics will get in the way of the intangible general feeling of what the public view of a sport v a competitive pastime is.</p>
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<p>e.g. Darts isn't a sport to me. Its pretty big, and blokes earn a living from it. But NOT a sport.</p>
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<p>Even snooker has an element of sport - the actions you take either deny your opponent a chance to score, or they will do the same to you.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469091" data-time="1421962405">
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<p>Using her own main point against her, there is absolutely ways to fend off your opponent in many Crossfit events. The simplest one is only rest when they rest, and start just before they do - a type of defence.</p>
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<p>Well, I'd say that is strategy, not defence.</p>
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<p>Defence is stopping or repelling an attack e.g. tackling someone, blocking their shot. You just can't do that in crossfit unless you have the power to prevent them climbing the rope, squatting the weight, doing the pushup.</p>
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<p>If you're beating them mentally by starting that little bit earlier, it isn't your defence that is beating them, its your attack.</p>
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<p>EDIT: In essence, for CrossFit, you could easily say there is only attack. You versus the clock. The clock doesn't give a fuck what you do. It just keeps time. It isn't your opponent; you are.</p>
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<p>EDIT 2: And the guys there aren't competing <em>against</em> you are actually competing <em>alongside </em>you in order to beat the clock i.e. themselves. Because if they don't pull out a good time, they risk losing. Maybe on the day it doesn't have to be a PB, but maybe it does.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="469093" data-time="1421962562">
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<p>Well, I'd say that is strategy, not defence.</p>
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<p>Defence is stopping or repelling an attack e.g. tackling someone, blocking their shot. You just can't do that in crossfit unless you have the power to prevent them climbing the rope, squatting the weight, doing the pushup.</p>
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<p>If you're beating them mentally by starting that little bit earlier, it isn't your defence that is beating them, its your attack.</p>
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<p>EDIT: In essence, for CrossFit, you could easily say there is only attack. You versus the clock. The clock doesn't give a fuck what you do. It just keeps time. It isn't your opponent; you are.</p>
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<p>EDIT 2: And the guys there aren't competing <em>against</em> you are actually competing <em>alongside </em>you in order to beat the clock i.e. themselves. Because if they don't pull out a good time, they risk losing. Maybe on the day it doesn't have to be a PB, but maybe it does.</p>
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<p>Fair points</p>
