Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I would rather that there was clear law and proper oversight for any government to put the country in house arrest.
If that's not there now then they should be transparent, to use Cindy's favourite word, about the need to fix it.
Agree, just edited my post to be clear about that as you posted.
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@Crucial Extraordinary times and all that, but the example I use was my family in the US being completely fine about Obama setting up a survellience state there with the NSA essentially recording every phone call.
Pointed out you may be fine with this guy, but what about the next guy? Hilariously, that turned about be Trump and they now get the point.
This is a well trodden path to losing freedoms we take for granted, and it'll happen so slowly we'll be like the proverbial boiled frog.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial Extraordinary times and all that, but the example I use was my family in the US being completely fine about Obama setting up a survellience state there with the NSA essentially recording every phone call.
Pointed out you may be fine with this guy, but what about the next guy? Hilariously, that turned about be Trump and they now get the point.
This is a well trodden path to losing freedoms we take for granted, and it'll happen so slowly we'll be like the proverbial boiled frog.
I'm not sure there is a comparison there. The surveillance stuff was using a situation (terror) to increase govt powers over the individual by passing new laws.
This is use of an existing law that may or may not have been written for the purpose used. It requires clarification but IMO it doesn't require it right at this moment. Energies can be spent better elsewhere.
I would prefer it if the press stopped winding people up about it and concentrated on getting the L2 messages across. The govt should also say 'we welcome clarity of the DGoH's use of the Act and should the courts find that the law needs adjusting we will do so'
The danger is an attitude of 'we will do what we like because we can' -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial Extraordinary times and all that, but the example I use was my family in the US being completely fine about Obama setting up a survellience state there with the NSA essentially recording every phone call.
Pointed out you may be fine with this guy, but what about the next guy? Hilariously, that turned about be Trump and they now get the point.
This is a well trodden path to losing freedoms we take for granted, and it'll happen so slowly we'll be like the proverbial boiled frog.
I'm not sure there is a comparison there. The surveillance stuff was using a situation (terror) to increase govt powers over the individual by passing new laws.
This is use of an existing law that may or may not have been written for the purpose used. It requires clarification but IMO it doesn't require it right at this moment. Energies can be spent better elsewhere.
I would prefer it if the press stopped winding people up about it and concentrated on getting the L2 messages across. The govt should also say 'we welcome clarity of the DGoH's use of the Act and should the courts find that the law needs adjusting we will do so'
The danger is an attitude of 'we will do what we like because we can'Not that sure what the NSA are doing are covered by any existing laws, but lets not go down that rabbit hole.
The point is an event happens, government reacts with wide reaching powers and then doesn't wind back those powers. Here, we want to ensure that the intial reaction was lawful, and if not have a proper debate on what the law should look like and implement that.
Secondly, these new powers (lawful or not) need to be wound back and not just be the new normal. Creeping death.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm not sure there is a comparison there. The surveillance stuff was using a situation (terror) to increase govt powers over the individual by passing new laws.
This is use of an existing law that may or may not have been written for the purpose used. It requires clarification but IMO it doesn't require it right at this moment.I find this passive acceptance of a government knowingly acting possibly ultra vires, using the threat of force on citizens to remove their liberties astonishing.
I would prefer it if the press stopped winding people up about it
I.e. tell the people what we want them to hear...
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial Extraordinary times and all that, but the example I use was my family in the US being completely fine about Obama setting up a survellience state there with the NSA essentially recording every phone call.
Pointed out you may be fine with this guy, but what about the next guy? Hilariously, that turned about be Trump and they now get the point.
This is a well trodden path to losing freedoms we take for granted, and it'll happen so slowly we'll be like the proverbial boiled frog.
I'm not sure there is a comparison there. The surveillance stuff was using a situation (terror) to increase govt powers over the individual by passing new laws.
This is use of an existing law that may or may not have been written for the purpose used. It requires clarification but IMO it doesn't require it right at this moment. Energies can be spent better elsewhere.
I would prefer it if the press stopped winding people up about it and concentrated on getting the L2 messages across. The govt should also say 'we welcome clarity of the DGoH's use of the Act and should the courts find that the law needs adjusting we will do so'
The danger is an attitude of 'we will do what we like because we can'Not that sure what the NSA are doing are covered by any existing laws, but lets not go down that rabbit hole.
The point is an event happens, government reacts with wide reaching powers and then doesn't wind back those powers. Here, we want to ensure that the intial reaction was lawful, and if not have a proper debate on what the law should look like and implement that.
Secondly, these new powers (lawful or not) need to be wound back and not just be the new normal. Creeping death.
If anything this shows that we need specific and debated laws around these situations including when they can be triggered into use and when they must be stopped. Specific emergency powers for pandemics maybe?
A google search has come up with this thesis from someone at Otago that covers the need and desire of emergency powers as well as a chapter on when a situation is not specifically covered. Looks to be interesting reading.
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None of the patients in hospital are in ICU.
One of two new cases of Covid-19 confirmed today is a nurse who has been caring for St Margaret's cluster patients.
Dr McElnay said the nurse is being cared for in North Shore hospital.
The other case reported today was a probable case (from the World Hereford Conference - Queenstown cluster) that has now been confirmed. -
Another 15 recovered, so only 122 current cases. Another cluster closed, George Manning rest home in Christchurch, so 4 clusters are now closed.
We moved into the top 20 nations for tests per capita.
Updated quarantine plans being submitted to MoH for dealing with future cases at level 2.
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The number of active cases is now 103.
*I think the change in the number of probable cases should say 1:
Today we are reporting two new cases of COVID-19 made up of one confirmed case and one probable case. Both cases are linked to the St Margaret’s Hospital & Rest Home in Auckland. The confirmed case is a household contact of a previously confirmed case linked to the cluster. The probable case is a nurse employed by Waitemata District Health Board who has been in self-isolation and is now regarded a probable case. Both new cases remain in self-isolation at home. Today there are two people in hospital with COVID-19 – one each in Middlemore and North Shore hospitals. Neither is in ICU. We still have 16 significant clusters, four of which are now closed. There are no additional deaths to report. Yesterday our laboratories completed 7,204 tests, bringing the total number of tests completed to date to 183,039. This equates to 3.5% of the population and puts New Zealand in the top 20 countries per capita for testing.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/2-new-cases-covid-19-2
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I dont get the cluster thing, I thought a cluster was 10 or more, they are 'closing' clusters presumably when they get below 10 active, however 16 clusters equals 160 people (or 12 active clusters equals 120) yet we only have 103 active cases?
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I dont get the cluster thing, I thought a cluster was 10 or more, they are 'closing' clusters presumably when they get below 10 active, however 16 clusters equals 160 people (or 12 active clusters equals 120) yet we only have 103 active cases?
Health website says "A COVID-19 cluster is considered be closed (there is no longer transmission of the virus within, or associated with the cluster), after a total of 28 consecutive days – or two incubation periods for the virus – since the most recent report date for a reported case."
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Stargazer I didn't realise there was a Ruby Princess cluster in Shield Snorters.
I read that as Rugby Princess Cluster in Shield Snorters.
I'll leave it there.
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Stargazer I didn't realise there was a Ruby Princess cluster in Shield Snorters.
I read that as Rugby Princess Cluster in Shield Snorters.
I'll leave it there.
From predator to victim in one fowl sweep.
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Today we are reporting two new confirmed cases of COVID-19. One case is linked to the St Margaret’s Hospital & Rest Home in Auckland. The individual is not a healthcare worker - they are a household contact of an earlier case linked to St Margaret's. They have been in self-isolation since that case was notified. The second is a person who has travelled back from overseas, so is an imported case. Today’s cases bring New Zealand’s combined total of confirmed and probable COVID-19 cases to 1,494. This is made up of 1,144 confirmed cases, which is the number we report to the World Health Organization, and 350 probable cases. We now have 1,371 people reported as having recovered from COVID-19, an increase of 3 on yesterday. This is 92% of all confirmed and probable cases. Today there are again two people in hospital with COVID-19 – one each in Middlemore and North Shore hospitals. Neither is in ICU. We still have 16 significant clusters, four of which are now closed. The number of cases linked to the Ruby Princess cruise ship increases by 1, due to the linking of an existing case. There are no additional deaths to report. Yesterday our laboratories processed 7,287 tests, bringing the total number of tests completed to date to 190,326.
The number of active cases is now 102.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/2-new-cases-covid-19-3
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@Mokey said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm gonna be so, so pissed if all these breaches result in a prolonged stay at L3.
they run the risk of civil disobedience if they push on with L3 for too long. There's a lot of people just holding on, when the risk appears to be very very low right now.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Mokey said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm gonna be so, so pissed if all these breaches result in a prolonged stay at L3.
they run the risk of civil disobedience if they push on with L3 for too long. There's a lot of people just holding on, when the risk appears to be very very low right now.
With 100 active cases, no community transmission, no overseas travel (which seems to be the main way to get it), those breaches have little to no risk.
They should be opening schools on Wednesday too, not next week.