Coronavirus - UK
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@broughie also, I haven't seen it mentioned much but the lockdowns disproportionately affect young people. Recessions and high unemployment rates will have serious consequences on the generations to come, and when you factor in the effects of this - poverty, increased drug/alcohol abuse, mental health issues etc etc it seems likely they (well we, I'm on the younger side in my 30s) will face a lower quality of life and lower life expectancy overall of this continues.
The question then becomes how much of our future generations lives are we willing to sacrifice for the sake of the elderly and immunocompromised? It doesn't even seem to factor into the decision making, all they talk about are actual lives lost which doesn't tell you even a fraction of the overall picture, especially when many of the people dying are 80+. Do we want to leave the world a better place for future generations or not?
I don't want to come across as heartless, but there has to be a balance, as the overall response so far seems to be extremely emotive rather than a dispassionate analysis of the facts. Jacinda in NZ is a prime example of that.
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It's a farce.
Successive governments and opposition parties giving lip service to nutrition, exercise and healthy lifestyle choices because they're getting backhanders and/or on the boards of multinational food & beverage and pharmaceutical companies are now in cahoots to shut the country down because the recipients of all the shit food and drugs are unhealthier than first feared and are dropping like 9 pins when exposed to COVID-19.
It's a real shame that in the current 'consumer culture' quantity of life is prized more than quality.
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I added up the number of NZers who would be considered vulnerable by NZ Ministry of Health definitions, and it was over half the population. Even accounting for overlap (because some people will have multiple vulnerabilities), it would still likely be a quarter or more.
I'm far too lazy to do the same research for the UK, but it's probably not miles away in terms of percentage of the population of the UK either.
If the plan is to get the restrictions lifted by telling the vulnerable to stay home so everyone else can live a more normal life, the vulnerable percentage is so large that the recession will still be ruinous and all the damaging economic effects on the young will come to pass anyway.
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@Godder It’s when you dig down into the stats and are able to view things in broader scale that the size and multitude of problems become more apparent. It then makes you realise that all the simple “plans” promoted primarily online for combating this thing are worked out on the back of a small envelope.
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@Godder Indeed. Your larger problem here though is the huge volume of people that simply flatly refuse to go to work. And the lobby groups who campaign that it's not safe and the government should continue the furlough support scheme etc.
The ironic thing is though, that the region that is unequivocally getting the most screwed by this is London. People, including me, are not getting on trains to go in, therefore are not buying lunch, using the local services & certainly not buying pints before venturing back out home. And yet, this spot is also home to all the pro-union, "liberal thinking", refugee sympathising, socialist Corbyn voting folks. But all they seem to see, is that large corporations are the one's who suffer. It's only a few billionaires / landlords / shareholders feeling the pinch, nothing to worry about.
But they are completely and utterly blind to the fact that little / no commuters means significant less work for transport, rail, cleaners, security, sandwich makers, bar staff ... Large successful companies work their way around these things, they always have (except for Lehman) and always will. One of the first things to go is ... cheap Labour.
So what the Corbyn fans are pushing for ... ultimately hurts the people they claim they are trying to protect, the most. It's retarded.
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Caerphilly the first Welsh region to go under Local Lockdown.
Starts at 6pm today (08Sep20).
It was like the biggest snowstorm, Black Friday and the January sales all wrapped up in to one when it was announced yesterday.
Shops stripped bare with little to no social distancing.
And we don't have to wear masks in shops in Wales.
Well played Welsh Government you fucking muppets.
Although I can't proved this - but neither can the Welsh Government disprove it - but I suspect that there are less people with COVID-19 today with the testing procedures and figures than had it in March, April, May, and June when there was little to no testing.
And as we've seen in other UK Local Lockdowns there has been no increase in hospitalisation and/or deaths.
An absolute farce.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
Although I can't proved this - but neither can the Welsh Government disprove it - but I suspect that there are less people with COVID-19 today with the testing procedures and figures than had it in March, April, May, and June when there was little to no testing.
Here is your proof:
And as we've seen in other UK Local Lockdowns there has been no increase in hospitalisation and/or deaths.
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
Although I can't proved this - but neither can the Welsh Government disprove it - but I suspect that there are less people with COVID-19 today with the testing procedures and figures than had it in March, April, May, and June when there was little to no testing.
Here is your proof:
And as we've seen in other UK Local Lockdowns there has been no increase in hospitalisation and/or deaths.
It's so frustrating
My primary and secondary revenue streams have been fucked by COVID-19 and my missus who works in the neighbouring area to Caerphilly will most certainly be made redundant if RCT goes in to Local Lockdown and either her venue closes - Royal Mint Experience - or people outside of RCT can't visit.
Wales is on the fast track to being fucked.
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@MiketheSnow Isn't it more in the nature of self 'abuse'?!
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow Isn't it more in the nature of self 'abuse'?!
Caerphilly gone to Local Lockdown based on a ridiculously small increase in cases and no deaths.
Turns out half are from three lads who went to Ibiza (legally), caught it out there without knowing, returned home and went about their lives because there was no quarantine and no test on return to the UK.
Then the Welsh Government have the audacity to blame them and other young people for spreading it while still keeping the schools open.
Inconsistent
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@Godder but you can not consider all the unhealthy at risk. Their are degrees of sickness. First start off with the sickest of us like the nursing homes where in some states (US) accounted for 50 percent of the deaths. Hate to be callous but these people where like kindling in a fire due to their comorbities and most likely would have died of some other illness. I worked at one of these places. Often confused, diabetics, HTN, renal failure, COPD and chronic UTI. The rest need to be educated about the risk and the responsibility should be placed back of them and those caring for them. I know several older people over here who are tired of being cooped up, like their independence, understand the risks and understand that people younger them are being screwed for just being young and healthy. And others are scared to death about going outside and catching the Rona. Since when are we now responsible for the health of others. And I am not talking about the obvious like if you are symptomatic.
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - UK:
@MiketheSnow Isn't it more in the nature of self 'abuse'?!
Caerphilly gone to Local Lockdown based on a ridiculously small increase in cases and no deaths.
Turns out half are from three lads who went to Ibiza (legally), caught it out there without knowing, returned home and went about their lives because there was no quarantine and no test on return to the UK.
Then the Welsh Government have the audacity to blame them and other young people for spreading it while still keeping the schools open.
Inconsistent
Yes it is crazy to base decisions on cases. I know the flu is different from covid but what happened if we did the testing we are doing now during the flu season? Would we lock everything down because positive tests would be through the roof. The only metric should be deaths and whether hospitals are overwhelmed. Nothing else.
Most young people are not affected by this virus and certainly children aren’t. Does anyone ever analyze the stats? I work with nurses in home health and they are scared of this virus even though they are young and healthy. It is scary when health care professionals buy into the panic. Saw a covid patient today. Had to gown up and all that crap although he is asymptomatic. It was my last visit. Shook his hand because I am tired of the fear and because squeezing flesh is human and bonding and washed my hands afterwards. He said he hadn’t shook anyone’s hand in a while and appreciated it. Life must go on but unfortunately the politicians making decisions for us are timid creatures and their go to is safety and how they are perceived in the moment. You wouldn’t want to fight along side them in a war.
Recent studies suggest that schools are not a source of the infection. Children are not the super spreaders that was alleged earlier in the piece.
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@broughie maybe the Ministry of Health have put the threshold of vulnerable too low, but I'm not a health professional, so have taken their word for it. Quality Adjusted Life Years is probably a reasonable metric here, so if anyone has any links to analysis, happy to read them.
That said, it's also a really awful way to die. People can minimise risks in lots of ways, but it's hard to eliminate all risk if one lives in a country where Covid-19 is endemic, and nobody cares about the statistical risks when their Nan or Dad is dying from it.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - UK:
@broughie maybe the Ministry of Health have put the threshold of vulnerable too low, but I'm not a health professional, so have taken their word for it. Quality Adjusted Life Years is probably a reasonable metric here, so if anyone has any links to analysis, happy to read them.
That said, it's also a really awful way to die. People can minimise risks in lots of ways, but it's hard to eliminate all risk if one lives in a country where Covid-19 is endemic, and nobody cares about the statistical risks when their Nan or Dad is dying from it.
Here is a new guy added to Trumps team which I think was needed. Fauci to me is too much of a bureaucrat who is too scared to make a mistake so he is overly safe. But he talks about loss of years.
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@broughie said in Coronavirus - UK:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - UK:
@broughie maybe the Ministry of Health have put the threshold of vulnerable too low, but I'm not a health professional, so have taken their word for it. Quality Adjusted Life Years is probably a reasonable metric here, so if anyone has any links to analysis, happy to read them.
That said, it's also a really awful way to die. People can minimise risks in lots of ways, but it's hard to eliminate all risk if one lives in a country where Covid-19 is endemic, and nobody cares about the statistical risks when their Nan or Dad is dying from it.
Here is a new guy added to Trumps team which I think was needed. Fauci to me is too much of a bureaucrat who is too scared to make a mistake so he is overly safe. But he talks about loss of years.
Tremendous watch but he does speak to how I feel and think
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An alternative US view
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@broughie @MiketheSnow A very interesting watch. Liked the science guy but felt the interviewer had an agenda. A couple of things though that were not touched on. They majored on the deaths but firstly did not address the potential for overwhelming of the heath services. Secondly in looking at opening the schools (not that I'm against this), they majored on the risk to the kids and totally ignored they risk of the kids being spreaders. Now I don't know how much of a risk that is, but they did not even address it; this after accusing the Governments of ignoring certain aspects of risk in implementing lockdown.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@broughie @MiketheSnow A very interesting watch. Liked the science guy but felt the interviewer had an agenda. A couple of things though that were not touched on. They majored on the deaths but firstly did not address the potential for overwhelming of the heath services. Secondly in looking at opening the schools (not that I'm against this), they majored on the risk to the kids and totally ignored they risk of the kids being spreaders. Now I don't know how much of a risk that is, but they did not even address it; this after accusing the Governments of ignoring certain aspects of risk in implementing lockdown.
The Atlantic piece above addresses this
Basically 'Look out for Grandma and Grandad'
Is this what they call 'The Nanny State'?
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
@broughie @MiketheSnow A very interesting watch. Liked the science guy but felt the interviewer had an agenda. A couple of things though that were not touched on. They majored on the deaths but firstly did not address the potential for overwhelming of the heath services. Secondly in looking at opening the schools (not that I'm against this), they majored on the risk to the kids and totally ignored they risk of the kids being spreaders. Now I don't know how much of a risk that is, but they did not even address it; this after accusing the Governments of ignoring certain aspects of risk in implementing lockdown.
That strategy worked out well in Italy didnt it? Oh wait....
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@Catogrande I think they did not address overwhelming the healthcare system because that was done and dusted. The interview was in June sometime and even in places like Florida where the media were besides themselves about the potential crisis Hospitals were never overwhelmed. I’m not sure if guys really understand how much the media in general is in the tank forLeft-wing and liberal ideology. They go to bat for Cuomo but any conservative they rape over the coals.