Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?
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@gt12 Great post and an interesting insight into how a different culture approaches health. I am surprised so many Asians smoke though, is that not part of the health checks?
I think being accountable and having immediate consequences helps. The fittest I have been in my adult life was before joining the Cops, I worked bloody hard to be as fit as I could be to pass the tests etc. But once I was in, I never once had to do another fitness test to stay operational. I had to pass proficiency testing with firearms, high risk incidents etc etc but they never tested my health or fitness.
I understand some Police jurisdictions do test fitness and will not allow you to be operational unless you meet certain standards. If I had to pass a fitness test every year to stay operational and full pay, then I no doubt would have looked after myself better. I guess incentives can work in some scenarios.
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@mariner4life you know what though, somehow my kids, despite seeing thier mum always watching what she eats, going to the gym and thier dad doing plenty of exercise to keep in shape, that for them to lose a few kgs or get fit they just need to take a pill or protein shakes.
Miss 12 has struggled the past few years after being tiny most of her life, but is now becoming quite self conscious.
TR Jnr was always a bit on the chubby side, didnt matter what he did, but last year as he has started to grow, he has lost alot of the flab, and is realising if he wants that body he sees in the movies, he has to fucking work for it...although still struggles to motivate himself to do much
I guess that comes from TV & Social Media, which obviously doesnt help.
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tax the fuck out of chips, biscuits, lollies and coke. nobody needs to buy a lot of those, and it worked for ciggies. use that money to improve the public health system, or use it to offset not having GST on fruit and veg. win win.
that shit is always the first thing 'on special' at the supermarket, and you always see the fattest shoppers with trolleys full of them. it's fucking sad. -
@reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?
I’d seriously have my doubts
yes, fatty.
I need a belt to wear size 34 jeans. The system is flawed
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Funny this thread appears today. I have an appointment with a dietician tomorrow.
I'm not a fatty these days but was back pre-2014 when I shed over 20kg and I've mostly been able to keep that off since.
But, I was getting a bunch of migraines through most of this year (1 or 2 a week at one stage) and studies have found that high cholesterol in older women is a possible factor in triggering them.
So I had a cholesterol test and it was crazy bad, worse than any pre-2014 one when I was a fatty eating lots of carbs and sweets. So they want to put me on meds, but first I have to have a dieticians appointment. Not sure what I'll get out of it.
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@MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?
I’d seriously have my doubts
yes, fatty.
I need a belt to wear size 34 jeans. The system is flawed
yeah, all the systems are flawed. e.g. BMI for people who lift weights doesn't really work, but you definitely need some sort of a measure, and as per gt12, to do it regularly to monitor change and catch it before it goes too far.
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@Nepia said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
I was getting a bunch of migraines through most of this year and studies have found that high cholesterol in older women
knew it!
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In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.
For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.
I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.
To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated....
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@voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.
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@voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.
For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.
I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.
>
To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated....But you look so hot compared to the rest of us
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@MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.
For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.
I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.
>
To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated....But you look so hot compared to the rest of us
True
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@voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc.
I think there are knock on effects, the children.
They see the shitty eating habits of a parent, whats to make them change, bar some kind of health scare?
It's the same with alot of things, a viscious circle.
As an adult my weight has largely been mid to high 90's (when I got the Heathrow Injection, I did get upto 105kg and when I was stressing about selling our house 8 years ago, I dropped to 88kg) but when I am on the heavier end of 90s it is shitty food and beer (especially home brew) but when I am mid 90's I do more exercise and eat better.
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@reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.
I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.
I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?
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@MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@gt12 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
As many of you know I live in Japan, and one of the key things here is the involvement of workplaces with the health of their workers.
This comes from the old lifetime career system, which has many problems, but one good point is that it is in companies' interest to keep their workers healthy. We have a health check every year, and as you get older and become at greater risk of different things (e.g., prostate cancer) new tests get added to your health check (e.g., PSA test). As a result, most everyone makes some effort to stay in reasonable enough shape - it is set up so that if you have problems, you have more shit to do, such as extra doctor visits, more tests etc etc. It certainly wastes money but IMO has some uncounted externalities, such as ppl being much healthier much older. You often pass 95 year olds walking (or cycling!) to the shops.
In my case, I had my health check last month (first week of October), and I actually went on a diet in August once I realised that I had put on 5 kgs during lockdown - much of that is me being a vain asshole, but it's also because I didn't want to have to explain to the doctor how it happened and have extra tests (3 kgs is the number at which they start to give you a hard time).
I got my results yesterday, and apart from a few issues with one compound in my liver (surprise surprise), my BMI is 23.2, I weighed in at 82.4 kgs (1 kg more than last year), and 188.5 cms and still got a warning for metabolical syndrome as my waist is 85.7cms (after 84.9 cms you get a warning). I'm pretty fucking skinny by NZ standards and I got a 'C' (A is the highest grade you can get).
Three years ago, that check-up identified the cancer that ending up killing my workmate, two years ago it identified the ongoing health issue with a colleague who is now fine.
This post got a lot longer than I planned, but I think that we put too much on individuals and their choices without putting people in situations where they are faced to front up to those choices at spaced intervals which highlight how much shit they might be in. In my case, although I now weigh 82 kgs, my trip from being 96 kgs and in trouble to 78.9 (at my lowest before I got sick in 2014) was going to my health check at work in 2009 and the doctor telling me, quite simply, that I was fat. I decided to stick it to that old fluffybunny by coming back next year skinnier, which I did. However, when I went in the next year at 84kgs he sent for extra tests because he thought I sick so I guess he still got the last laugh
Surely you jest. I’m a tiny bit taller but I linger in and around the ton !! I’d get sent to fat camp right away.
The BMI is a shit statistic, for sure. If you lift, you'll be explaining it to the doctor, but since you have to show a bit of skin getting your waist measured anyway, if you are clearly cut, they'll cut you some slack. I actually just got a message from them telling me that despite my tests with red ink (liver, waist), I don't need any extra doctor visits etc as they are happy with my health
That's typical, because I've set myself the goal to be under 84.9 and I think I might be OK now - I've continued with the diet and I hit 81.4 today, so miiiiight be at 84.9 around the waist. I might need to get in the 80s and reduce a bit more waist fat, but I've got a goal now...
Fitness and weight is a funny things anyway. I topped out at 103 kgs at university and I could still two-handed dunk it at B-ball. Now, I think I'd be lucky to touch the rim.
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@voodoo think is with a chocolate bar, lets say it costs $0.50c add GST and you are at $0.575c, and is sold for $1, add 50% tax on it and it is $0.75c cost, they can still sell at $1.50 and I bet sales wouldnt drop much at that cost, but make more and still sell plenty cos they are at the check out.
@gt12 I had a body scan thingee last week, my BMI is 32.2...
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@voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.
I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.
I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?
Yep, agreed in theory. But in practice their punishment is minor, cause they're only buying occasionally. And they get the benefit of that improved public health system / less tax required to run it / cheaper fruit n veg / whatever else.
I buy crap occasionally, and I would happily suck up a big price increase there for cheaper actual food. It just encourages people to make better decisions more often, and when they don't, the rest of the population is not subsidising their bad decisions. -
I think there are a few factors. It's not like other generations didn't also eat and drink crap. Fish or savs in batter, potato scallops and chips aren't exactly healthy. Always been lots of chocolate and lollies around as well. Not to mention juice and cordial.
I'm skeptical of taxes making any difference, but it would be nice if actual healthy food was made cheaper. But then again there seems to be a fundamental lack of knowledge among most of the population about what healthy eating actually entails.
A sedentary lifestyle is also massive contributing factor. Particularly for obesity among kids.
Ultimately it's a pretty simple formula. Exercise more and don't eat shit. But some foods are very addictive and proper exercise can be really hard for some.
I've always thought a type of rewards scheme for people who do maintain a good level of health might be an idea. No idea how to enforce that though.
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@voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:
@voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.
I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.
I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?
That's my issue too. I shouldn't have to pay stupid money for the occasional treat just because others have zero discipline. And as I said, I'm not sure it would make any difference. Plenty of fat båstards eating food made with "healthy ingredients" as well.