ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?
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@pukunui said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.
Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
Just on that first paragraph (I can’t work out how to bold it from my phone)
If you look at the team for the first game of the season im not sure you could seriously argue that all those players were established as the best players in their positions.
In the backs it was only A Smith who was clearly the first choice in the position he was picked in.That's not what I'm arguing though.
I'd say if you're Brodie Retallick and you spend the first five games sitting on the sidelines, then you can probably say you didn't get a fair crack. But, if you're Cullen Grace then that's just how it goes - you have to bide your time and when you get your chance, take it.
I don't think there's anyone who can say they've been too hard done by - there are some guys who've grasped their chance when they've been given it.
Perhaps the only guy who's got a real case for not getting a fair crack - if he wanted to make it - is Beaudy. "I'm a two-time fucking World Player of the Year and I'M the one getting shuffled". But, quite possibly he's quite happy playing fullback - that I don't know.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
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@Kiwiwomble said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
have the last name Barrett
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@Kiwiwomble said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
> I'm not really a fan of the thread title, because it's the All Blacks and not the Under-10s. If you're not established as the best player in your position then any time you get is a privilege.Plus - we only had six tests, we struggled, and when Fozzie pushed the rotation button a bit, we lost (though players not on the park had a fair bit to do with that).
That first bit sounds a bit sanctimonious - but, what I mean is a complete newbie like Cullen Grace - any time he got was a bonus.
A slightly different tack - people who I'd want to see in the first test next year (based on what we've seen).
Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Akira Ioane, Will Jordan.
I guess that's part of the argument, how do you become established if not given games...and how do you get games if not stand outs in super rugby
I think you have to bide your time and take your chance when you get it.
To be honest, I didn't find any of Fozzie's selections illogical - even if I disagreed with some of them.
Giving Jordie yet another run on the wing at the weekend was starting to get close to it, but even then I can understand the logic, because they'd backed themselves into a corner - Sevu was pretty ordinary in his start and Will Jordan had barely played in two months.
I probably would have played Rieko on the right wing, but he's made a couple of howlers this season, as well.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
To be honest, I didn't find any of Fozzie's selections illogical - even if I disagreed with some of them.
I think not picking Akira against Argentina in Parramatta was illogical after the impact he had in Brisbane. When you consider how little impact Frizell had shown in the Tests he played in, Akira's non selection becomes even more confusing.
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@akan004 I am not so sure, I think it was a knee jerk reaction, shit, we lost, lets go back to our '1st team' which is where you question who is the '1st team'
Fozzie needed to take some risks, but I think that loss scared him into being conservative (in hindsight, Akira was the safe and best selection)
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@Nepia said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Crucial said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
They just appeared too conservative to me. The new guys that did get a chance did prove their worth (Clarke, Jordan, AIoane). Just makes you wonder if others would have also done well
Those two still fall into the category of didn't get a fair crack. In fact they probably top the chart even ahead of Papali'i.
Jordan may have had more time if he didn't get his head injured in Bledisloe 4.
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We should have seen a lot more of Will Jordan, Akira Ioane and Hoskins Sotutu. Would have liked to see Dalton Papali'i and Peter Umaga-Jensen more and Jordie Barret given time at Fullback.
Disappointed that Foster did so little to develop other options and younger players at Hooker, Half Back and First Five.
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@akan004 said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
To be honest, I didn't find any of Fozzie's selections illogical - even if I disagreed with some of them.
I think not picking Akira against Argentina in Parramatta was illogical after the impact he had in Brisbane. When you consider how little impact Frizell had shown in the Tests he played in, Akira's non selection becomes even more confusing.
I'd say that probably Akira was a bit unlucky that he only got 20 minutes to show what he could do in that test.
BUT, a bright 20 minutes on debut isn't compelling enough for me to say it's an illogical selection, and I don't agree about about Frizell's lack of impact either.
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@sparky said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
We should have seen a lot more of Will Jordan, Akira Ioane and Hoskins Sotutu. Would have liked to see Dalton Papali'i and Peter Umaga-Jensen more and Jordie Barret given time at Fullback.
Disappointed that Foster did so little to develop other options and younger players at Hooker, Half Back and First Five.
yeah, especially when the person keeping Jordan out (before injury) was out of the positions he'd been playing all year, didn't have a lot of experience in that position, wasn't paying the best
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@Stargazer He's 20. He can wait his turn like Akira had to.
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@Chris-B Frizzell isn't terrible, he's just not the enforcer we need. He makes his tackles, carts the ball up to an OK standard but we need more from a 6 otherwise we may as well have Luke Whitelock playing there.
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@African-Monkey said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B Frizzell isn't terrible, he's just not the enforcer we need. He makes his tackles, carts the ball up to an OK standard but we need more from a 6 otherwise we may as well have Luke Whitelock playing there.
oh burrrrrn
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@African-Monkey Yeah - and I'd say Akira has probably supplanted him (for the next while at least).
But, that's a different point than whether selecting Frizell vs Argentina was illogical.
Don't forget that Frizell's team vs Australia had given the Aussies a thrashing, while Akira's team (and obviously almost nothing to do with Akira) had been beaten.
No great surprise that Fozzie would revert back to his "top" team. Pretty logical IMO.
And, in fact, he got asked whether he'd been tempted to play Akira and he said "very tempted".
Quite often, AB coaches speak with forked tongue - but, in this instance I suspect he was telling the truth, because Akira got the next game.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
Giving Jordie yet another run on the wing at the weekend was starting to get close to it, but even then I can understand the logic, because they'd backed themselves into a corner
That's the kind of idiocy we don't want to see from our coaches.
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@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@African-Monkey Yeah - and I'd say Akira has probably supplanted him (for the next while at least).
But, that's a different point than whether selecting Frizell vs Argentina was illogical.
Don't forget that Frizell's team vs Australia had given the Aussies a thrashing, while Akira's team (and obviously almost nothing to do with Akira) had been beaten.
No great surprise that Fozzie would revert back to his "top" team. Pretty logical IMO.
And, in fact, he got asked whether he'd been tempted to play Akira and he said "very tempted".
Quite often, AB coaches speak with forked tongue - but, in this instance I suspect he was telling the truth, because Akira got the next game.
I see you've crossed out Hammett on your Shield and written Fozzie instead.
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@Nepia said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@African-Monkey Yeah - and I'd say Akira has probably supplanted him (for the next while at least).
But, that's a different point than whether selecting Frizell vs Argentina was illogical.
Don't forget that Frizell's team vs Australia had given the Aussies a thrashing, while Akira's team (and obviously almost nothing to do with Akira) had been beaten.
No great surprise that Fozzie would revert back to his "top" team. Pretty logical IMO.
And, in fact, he got asked whether he'd been tempted to play Akira and he said "very tempted".
Quite often, AB coaches speak with forked tongue - but, in this instance I suspect he was telling the truth, because Akira got the next game.
I see you've crossed out Hammett on your Shield and written Fozzie instead.
@Chris-B is just in a happy place because all the trophies are in the right cabinets
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@taniwharugby said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Kiwiwomble thing is, there has always been a history of 'loyalty' to the current squad.
Tough to get into, but tougher to get out it seems.
ANd an injury replacement doesnt mean that new guy has an 'in'
Good point, a common characteristic of all great teams, ABs, Man U, Aus cricket
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@mariner4life said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Nepia said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@African-Monkey Yeah - and I'd say Akira has probably supplanted him (for the next while at least).
But, that's a different point than whether selecting Frizell vs Argentina was illogical.
Don't forget that Frizell's team vs Australia had given the Aussies a thrashing, while Akira's team (and obviously almost nothing to do with Akira) had been beaten.
No great surprise that Fozzie would revert back to his "top" team. Pretty logical IMO.
And, in fact, he got asked whether he'd been tempted to play Akira and he said "very tempted".
Quite often, AB coaches speak with forked tongue - but, in this instance I suspect he was telling the truth, because Akira got the next game.
I see you've crossed out Hammett on your Shield and written Fozzie instead.
@Chris-B is just in a happy place because all the trophies are in the right cabinets
incoming rant about the Shield.
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@KiwiMurph said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@mariner4life said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Nepia said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@Chris-B said in ABs 2020: Who didn't get a fair crack?:
@African-Monkey Yeah - and I'd say Akira has probably supplanted him (for the next while at least).
But, that's a different point than whether selecting Frizell vs Argentina was illogical.
Don't forget that Frizell's team vs Australia had given the Aussies a thrashing, while Akira's team (and obviously almost nothing to do with Akira) had been beaten.
No great surprise that Fozzie would revert back to his "top" team. Pretty logical IMO.
And, in fact, he got asked whether he'd been tempted to play Akira and he said "very tempted".
Quite often, AB coaches speak with forked tongue - but, in this instance I suspect he was telling the truth, because Akira got the next game.
I see you've crossed out Hammett on your Shield and written Fozzie instead.
@Chris-B is just in a happy place because all the trophies are in the right cabinets
incoming rant about the Shield.
yeah, i teed that up nicely i think
