-
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
-
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
-
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
A fair and plausible assessment. To be fair up to that point the dems weren't exactly moving the needle on their own. I can't remember if they got a bounce once Biden was confirmed as the dems candidate or not. Could Biden have stood up to 3 live debates and the rigours of a proper nationwide campaign? I'm not convinced but we will never know
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
If these reports are true (and who knows) this could get very interesting.
1 Trump says Pence can stop the election process
2 MAGA types threaten Pence (and by proxy family, who were reportedly with him).
3 Journalists points out even acting Presidents get lifetime security
4 Pence reconsiders 25th amendment (and possibly hero status from swinging voters and non-Trump Republicans going into next Presidential election).Don't quite follow your logic, but think he'd get a bigger lift from"hero status" for standing up for the rule of law rather than appealing to the Trumpist nutjobs.
You are right, you misunderstand me.
Trumpists blame Pence to the point of threatening him. Plus Trump allegedly did not check in on his VP's safety during the 'storming' so Pence may no longer feel very loyal to Trump and reports are that he himself has Presidential ambitions.
If a VP enacts the 25th amendment, as a replacement/acting President, he gets all the perks on leaving office including lifetime security.
Thanks to Trump saying Pence can save him (i.e. stop or postpone the ballots), Pence has now lost the Trump extreme base (who blame him for choosing/allowing Biden to take up office), but if the Republicans manage to get rid of Trump's influence it may not be a big problem in 2024 as Pence may snare some wavering Democrat/swinging voters even if he lost the Trump MAGA types.
Yes to many moderates/leftists, Pence is a fairly extreme religious type but they weren't likely to vote for him anyway, and if he 'saves' the USA/Republications from Trump, he may pick up bonus points (extra votes).
Is that clearer? -
@canefan said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
A fair and plausible assessment. To be fair up to that point the dems weren't exactly moving the needle on their own. I can't remember if they got a bounce once Biden was confirmed as the dems candidate or not. Could Biden have stood up to 3 live debates and the rigours of a proper nationwide campaign? I'm not convinced but we will never know
Too right, then again I think many of us misunderestimated Biden. He looked dead and buried against the other Democrat contenders yet suddenly stormed home, and gave some better speeches recently than I thought he would. But I also underestimated Pence. I don't think I'd like him personally, or have much in common, but he has managed to stay the course (as he allegedly whispered to others) for four years and is a much better debater than I expected (others knew this, I didn't). Then again, I don't really see how these religious types/fundamentalists put up with/even like Trump. Millionaires and dictators, yup I can see the appeal.
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@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
-
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
Not if Trump has anything to do with it, whatever his platform is by then. His followers love him, what would it take for them to abandon him?
-
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
Its all hypothetical now. I always thought the election would won by the dems if enough people were motivated enough to vote against Trump
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
Not if Trump has anything to do with it, whatever his platform is by then. His followers love him, what would it take for them to abandon him?
Run as an independent? I’m not sure he’d take that much of a risk of becoming a two time loser. Sorry I mean two time victim of fraud.
-
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
Its all hypothetical now. I always thought the election would won by the dems if enough people were motivated enough to vote against Trump
I always thought that likely and when you take into account the much higher voter turnout this time it does bear that theory out.
-
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
Its all hypothetical now. I always thought the election would won by the dems if enough people were motivated enough to vote against Trump
I always thought that likely and when you take into account the much higher voter turnout this time it does bear that theory out.
What we can't know for sure is if his handling of covid19, or the BLM kerfuffle were pivotal or not
-
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
Not if Trump has anything to do with it, whatever his platform is by then. His followers love him, what would it take for them to abandon him?
Run as an independent? I’m not sure he’d take that much of a risk of becoming a two time loser. Sorry I mean two time victim of fraud.
I mean will he still be spouting his mouth on tik tok or something? And will people still be listening? As a side note it would be ironic if Trump opened a tik tok account
-
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
It's all hypothetical but four points:
-
Polling well;
-
Economy strong (It's the...);
-
On the balance of probabilities postal voting (itself massively up because of Covid) swayed the voting on the margin; but most important
-
Covid starkly highlighted Donald's inadequacies.
-
-
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
Not if Trump has anything to do with it, whatever his platform is by then. His followers love him, what would it take for them to abandon him?
Run as an independent? I’m not sure he’d take that much of a risk of becoming a two time loser. Sorry I mean two time victim of fraud.
I mean will he still be spouting his mouth on tik tok or something? And will people still be listening? As a side note it would be ironic if Trump opened a tik tok account
Sorry, misunderstood your point. Though I’d say the same thing still applies to the MAGA crowd. Notwithstanding any spoutings from Trump, if Pence is the GOP candidate, what are their options?
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
Its all hypothetical now. I always thought the election would won by the dems if enough people were motivated enough to vote against Trump
Getting enough people to vote is key in America, isn't it! Quite impressive numbers, considering COVID, and one side discouraging mail-in votes.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@booboo said in US Politics:
@pakman said in US Politics:
@voodoo said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@voodoo it's a bit confusing for me now as threads have different posters contribute.
Fine, you think it is fair. I am glad you have a different opinion to me. And I am happy to disclose I may have an auto-bias against Sheridan. I am sure I enjoyed his foreign politics articles some years ago (or, perhaps I am turning into a dangerous socialist, perhaps even a neo-Hegelian).
I still think he uses crummy rhetorical devices and could have been more insightful.
I am overly interested in Trump because his PR/crowd control is totally unorthodox and verges on brilliance but in most other aspects he seems, IMO, to be inept. Particularly in who he hires. He may well be undone by that Trump junior video and Trump apparently wearing a boxing glove, Trump also had an amazing ability to avoid personal punishment but his love of being foremost/a celebrity keeps bumping up against his Stainless Steel Rat-like capacity to avoid accountability.Foreign affairs: in my humble opinion, the US has been close to nuclear war, and lost its importance with major allies and dumped others (the Kurds), something a traditional conservative government would never do. I grant the issues with China are complex and far-reaching, but I personally think the US has lost its standing and influence internationally. You may well disagree, your right. I'd be interested in what you think the major triumphs, are, I am sure there are some.
And yes it would be great to have a good conservative viewpoint to read, happy to take suggestions.
Hey
I totally agree with the first half of your post, and don't violently disagree with the 2nd.
I do think some credit is due for holding China to account, and for the middle east deals. Maybe both things are fleeting, but still. The tax cuts at home were welcome, as was cutting a lot of red tape. I thinknhe was right to get Europe to pull its weight more under NATO, though I agree with you that they gave up the role of international police which was disappointing.
But don't get me wrong, I'm certainly no fan of his. I'm just trying to look past my own bias to see if there were things he did that we can actually agree were good.
And I think there were. A few. But thats not to say that on balance I think he was a disaster for numerous reasons, and he remains a horrible human.
For the record, I'm very middle ground policitically. I've voted both ways here in Oz, am pretty centrist. Right on economics, often left on social issues.
Seems easier to be a swinger here in Oz than in the USA...😎
Grotesque man, but his foreign policy record is miles better than Obama.
Did much good for US economy.
And, whatever people like to tell themselves, would have walked a second term but for Covid.
Really?
His poll numbers were pretty good until Covid.
Weren’t Hillary’s poll numbers quite good until she lost?
Its all hypothetical now. I always thought the election would won by the dems if enough people were motivated enough to vote against Trump
I agree with canefan. One thing I have learnt is that polls can be very wrong on the day. And given the US is based on electoral colleges not direct votes it becomes even harder to predict.
I honestly think the Australian Coalition thought they were going to lose in the last election-they didn't.
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@booboo said in US Politics:
Not an expert but would have thought those would tend to be kind of opposing concepts?
I think there has been some formatting issue.
Voodoo to me (on Saudi Arabia and Netanyahu) "Not an expert but would have thought those would tend to be kind of opposing concepts?"
I meant: Trump seems a little chummy with Saudi Arabia. Trump seems a little chummy with Netanyahu.
I find the politics of Saudi Arabia confusing but worrying. I find Netanhayu to be intelligent but distasteful and I suspect he is corrupt. I don't mean they are chummy with each other. -
@canefan his followers will abandon him if he abandons them. I read that after his speech some of them began to do so, but for many the mojo is strong.
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus @booboo On the Pence thing, whilst it certainly looks like he’s lost the MAGA crowd, come 2024 if he’s the GOP candidate what are the options for those disenfranchised Trumpists? Vote Dem or just not vote I guess. I wonder how many might come round to putting their cross against Pence as the lesser evil.
Not if Trump has anything to do with it, whatever his platform is by then. His followers love him, what would it take for them to abandon him?
Run as an independent? I’m not sure he’d take that much of a risk of becoming a two time loser. Sorry I mean two time victim of fraud.
I mean will he still be spouting his mouth on tik tok or something? And will people still be listening? As a side note it would be ironic if Trump opened a tik tok account
Sorry, misunderstood your point. Though I’d say the same thing still applies to the MAGA crowd. Notwithstanding any spoutings from Trump, if Pence is the GOP candidate, what are their options?
Very good question, I don't follow their logic so I don't know myself. I suspect they will be bored with Pence and some other Republican come lately will try to woo them (I doubt someone like Cruz will be able to but perhaps he will try).
Winger may be a better person to ask.
US Politics