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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to Bovidae on last edited by
    #73

    @Bovidae said in The GOAT:

    There are only a handful of team sports that have true worldwide appeal, and the NFL isn't one of them.

    If you are picking an all-time GOAT I'd be looking at an individual athlete.

    Possibly a fair point which would rule Bradman and Phil the Power out unless you happen to have a look at their numbers as a random fan and judge them on that.

    canefanC MiketheSnowM 2 Replies Last reply
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  • canefanC Online
    canefanC Online
    canefan
    replied to MN5 on last edited by
    #74

    @MN5 said in The GOAT:

    @Bovidae said in The GOAT:

    There are only a handful of team sports that have true worldwide appeal, and the NFL isn't one of them.

    If you are picking an all-time GOAT I'd be looking at an individual athlete.

    Possibly a fair point which would rule Bradman and Phil the Power out unless you happen to have a look at their numbers as a random fan and judge them on that.

    There only a handful of global team sports, football and basketball the two true ones. That just leaves solo pursuits like athletics

    MN5M 1 Reply Last reply
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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to canefan on last edited by MN5
    #75

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @MN5 said in The GOAT:

    @Bovidae said in The GOAT:

    There are only a handful of team sports that have true worldwide appeal, and the NFL isn't one of them.

    If you are picking an all-time GOAT I'd be looking at an individual athlete.

    Possibly a fair point which would rule Bradman and Phil the Power out unless you happen to have a look at their numbers as a random fan and judge them on that.

    There only a handful of global team sports, football and basketball the two true ones. That just leaves solo pursuits like athletics

    If you look at it that way then yeah a team winning the football world cup is hugely impressive. Shit the All Whites got nominated for awards for just qualifying. Same with anytime the Tall Blacks do well. Rugby is growing but it's gone from five teams who could have won the WC ( 10-20 years ago ) to maybe.....well still under ten.....

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  • voodooV Offline
    voodooV Offline
    voodoo
    replied to canefan on last edited by
    #76

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    in my opinion of course

    with regards to team sports, there isn't another position in any sport that is under more scrutiny than the NFL quarterback. In a squad of 50-odd guys, you are the man. You get the money. The entire winning and losing of the organisation rests on you.

    Brady built the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen. Left it at 43, and immediately won with another team. Playing the prime position still at the very elite level.

    He is the main man and should get his dues. But football isn't basketball. Brady did his part but that defence was huge. This is not MJ single-handedly dominating big games

    that's a myth too. One great guy doesn't win you a ring, even if he is 20% of the team on the court. Jordan was amazing, but needed other guys to step up (pippen, Rodman, game winning shots by Kerr). There are a lot of NBA teams with one great guy who don't win because he needs help (see the Warriors this year). Look at a season and see how many games are won when one guy gets a shitload. What did Curry score the other day in a loss?

    All good points. MJ could dominate and influence a game more than Brady I would still argue. But they both have that ultracompetitive streak. And Tom wins the GOAT with the hottest wife stakes by the length of the straight and some

    The difference between bball and football is that MJ can't be kept out of the game. While he can't do everything himself, you can't stop him taking 25 shots per game and you can't stop him guarding your best player. Contrast that to yesterday, and Brady is only playing half the game, and it was the Bucs defense that won the game for them. Swap Brady for Mahomes yesterday, and the result is undoubtedly the same, and probably by the same margin. You can't say that when you swap MJ for Karl Malone!

    canefanC MajorRageM 2 Replies Last reply
    1
  • canefanC Online
    canefanC Online
    canefan
    replied to voodoo on last edited by
    #77

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    in my opinion of course

    with regards to team sports, there isn't another position in any sport that is under more scrutiny than the NFL quarterback. In a squad of 50-odd guys, you are the man. You get the money. The entire winning and losing of the organisation rests on you.

    Brady built the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen. Left it at 43, and immediately won with another team. Playing the prime position still at the very elite level.

    He is the main man and should get his dues. But football isn't basketball. Brady did his part but that defence was huge. This is not MJ single-handedly dominating big games

    that's a myth too. One great guy doesn't win you a ring, even if he is 20% of the team on the court. Jordan was amazing, but needed other guys to step up (pippen, Rodman, game winning shots by Kerr). There are a lot of NBA teams with one great guy who don't win because he needs help (see the Warriors this year). Look at a season and see how many games are won when one guy gets a shitload. What did Curry score the other day in a loss?

    All good points. MJ could dominate and influence a game more than Brady I would still argue. But they both have that ultracompetitive streak. And Tom wins the GOAT with the hottest wife stakes by the length of the straight and some

    The difference between bball and football is that MJ can't be kept out of the game. While he can't do everything himself, you can't stop him taking 25 shots per game and you can't stop him guarding your best player. Contrast that to yesterday, and Brady is only playing half the game, and it was the Bucs defense that won the game for them. Swap Brady for Mahomes yesterday, and the result is undoubtedly the same, and probably by the same margin. You can't say that when you swap MJ for Karl Malone!

    Yup. And you can't stop him making triple doubles etc filling the stat line

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  • voodooV Offline
    voodooV Offline
    voodoo
    wrote on last edited by
    #78

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    canefanC HoorooH 2 Replies Last reply
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  • canefanC Online
    canefanC Online
    canefan
    replied to voodoo on last edited by
    #79

    @voodoo and his HoF speech showed that he is perpetually fueled by a font of rage based on real or imagined slights. The only time I've seen a crack in the mask was Kobe Bryant's memorial

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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    wrote on last edited by MN5
    #80

    Good call Piers ( even if you are a dick half the time )

    Piers Morgan  /  Feb 8, 2021  /  News

    PIERS MORGAN: Tom Brady doesn't make my Top 10 sporting GOATs

    PIERS MORGAN: Tom Brady doesn't make my Top 10 sporting GOATs

    All hail King Tom Brady! The superstar quarter-back's record-breaking 7th Super Bowl victory yesterday means he's now won it more times than any NFL franchise, let alone any other player.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurph
    wrote on last edited by
    #81

    This is what makes this topic so fun - there is a lot of pros and cons.

    Even Bradman - the guy played 11 test series in his whole career and his only overseas series were in England - he never played in Asia, South Africa, West Indies etc.

    MN5M 1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to voodoo on last edited by
    #82

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    MN5M voodooV mariner4lifeM 3 Replies Last reply
    1
  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to KiwiMurph on last edited by
    #83

    @KiwiMurph said in The GOAT:

    This is what makes this topic so fun - there is a lot of pros and cons.

    Even Bradman - the guy played 11 test series in his whole career and his only overseas series were in England - he never played in Asia, South Africa, West Indies etc.

    As I mentioned earlier I love the inane ramblings of butthurt Indians online who are unable to grasp the fact that he averaged close to 50 runs more than the very best of them.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • MN5M Online
    MN5M Online
    MN5
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by MN5
    #84

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    Maybe above Kid Rock but below Tommy Lee ? Has Pamela Anderson ever released any memoirs ?

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • voodooV Offline
    voodooV Offline
    voodoo
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #85

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    Oh yes, I saw your suggestion earlier and I liked it. Forgot him. Agree he is right up there, what a freak.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
    Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
    Rancid Schnitzel
    wrote on last edited by
    #86

    Trying to name a cross-sport GOAT is pretty pointless imho. There could very well be squash players, gymnasts, volleyballers or farking kayakers who have dominated their respective sports more than higher profile athletes in higher profile sports. Ever heard of Ole Einar Bjøndalen? Norwegian biathlete who won 8 Olympic gold medals.

    And how do you compare Usaine Bolt with the Don? Or Michael Phelps with Ayrton Senna?

    Tom Brady’s stats are absolutely ridiculous, but in a team sport with vast differences required in terms of size and skill set is it fair to say he’s the best ever player rather than the best ever QB? Same with the Don. Best batter for sure, but the dude didn’t bowl, so does that make him the best ever cricketer full stop?

    It’s a fun conversation but I don’t see how anyone (other than the asshole Yanks) can unequivocally declare anyone the GOAT.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to canefan on last edited by
    #87

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    Deion Sanders played NFL and MLB on the same weekend at times. In the pro era. That's fucking unreal.

    He and Bo Jackson are the last 2 great dual sportsman

    Bo Jackson is a contender for the BOAT athlete (rather than the GOAT).

    Bo Jackson - Wikipedia

    Bo Jackson - Wikipedia

    In addition to football and baseball...his High School decathlon points record appears to exceed the Olympic qualifying standard.

    While at McAdory High School, Jackson competed as a sprinter, hurdler, jumper, thrower and decathlete. His best 100-meter time in high school was 10.44 seconds, but he would later run a 10.39 at Auburn. He also ran the 100-yard dash in 9.54 seconds. As a hurdler, he recorded times of 7.29 seconds in the 55m hurdles and 13.81 seconds in the 110m hurdles. In decathlon, he reached 8340 points. In the jumping events, he had personal-best jumps of 2.06 meters (6 feet, 9 inches) in the high jump, 7.52 meters (24 feet, 8 inches) in the long jump and 14.85 meters (48 feet, 9 inches) in the triple jump. As a thrower, he got top-throws of 15.27 meters (50 feet, 1 inch) in the shot put and 45.44 meters (149 feet, 1 inch) in the discus throw.

    Rancid SchnitzelR 1 Reply Last reply
    3
  • mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4life
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #88

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
    Rancid SchnitzelR Offline
    Rancid Schnitzel
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #89

    @Chris-B said in The GOAT:

    @canefan said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    Deion Sanders played NFL and MLB on the same weekend at times. In the pro era. That's fucking unreal.

    He and Bo Jackson are the last 2 great dual sportsman

    Bo Jackson is a contender for the BOAT athlete (rather than the GOAT).

    Bo Jackson - Wikipedia

    Bo Jackson - Wikipedia

    In addition to football and baseball...his High School decathlon points record appears to exceed the Olympic qualifying standard.

    While at McAdory High School, Jackson competed as a sprinter, hurdler, jumper, thrower and decathlete. His best 100-meter time in high school was 10.44 seconds, but he would later run a 10.39 at Auburn. He also ran the 100-yard dash in 9.54 seconds. As a hurdler, he recorded times of 7.29 seconds in the 55m hurdles and 13.81 seconds in the 110m hurdles. In decathlon, he reached 8340 points. In the jumping events, he had personal-best jumps of 2.06 meters (6 feet, 9 inches) in the high jump, 7.52 meters (24 feet, 8 inches) in the long jump and 14.85 meters (48 feet, 9 inches) in the triple jump. As a thrower, he got top-throws of 15.27 meters (50 feet, 1 inch) in the shot put and 45.44 meters (149 feet, 1 inch) in the discus throw.

    Bo was a ridiculous athlete. He hated the mile and would rack up enough points to win in order to get out of running it. As an aside, he also appears to be an amazing human being as well.

    1 Reply Last reply
    3
  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #90

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?

    11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!

    GET OUTSIDE!!!!

    voodooV 1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • voodooV Offline
    voodooV Offline
    voodoo
    replied to Hooroo on last edited by
    #91

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?

    11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!

    GET OUTSIDE!!!!

    @mariner4life @Hooroo

    If you like surfing docos, have a watch of Kissed By God, story of Andy Irons - he won the world title 3 years straight, 2002, 2003 & 2004 - Slater won in 2005 as the oldest winner ever, and Irons spiraled into a life of drugs and depression - what could have been!

    This is a decent read also

    HoorooH 1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • HoorooH Offline
    HoorooH Offline
    Hooroo
    replied to voodoo on last edited by
    #92

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @mariner4life said in The GOAT:

    @Hooroo said in The GOAT:

    @voodoo said in The GOAT:

    Fun exercise, and I agree with M4L that this would be best argued over 10 pints. No right answers. I like MJ, I like Bolt, I have time for Brady.

    I can't have a boxer given we can't even decide who the best of them is - I also can't have non-heavyweights or any other athlete that competes in a weight class. I don't mind so much if a sport isn't widely played.

    Can't have Pele or any other soccer player cos they're all cheating cnts. Swimmers nah, unless some bloke dominated all the freestyle events for a decade, no other strokes count. No "sports" allowed that don't require you to work up a sweat.

    One important distinction for me for GOAT is I place much more emphasis on peak performance than I do career resume. A good example is MJ v Kareem or Lebron. Both those guys may have had better careers than MJ when you look at the body of work. But if the aliens turned up tomorrow to play us at BBall for the future of the earth, there is only 1 guy you're picking first.

    So I always come back to MJ. The consensus #1 NBA GOAT for anyone over the age of 25. A pretty global sport that requires mental strength as well as physical dominance, and requires you to co-exist with teammates and commit to making them better.

    Where does Kelly Slater fit amongst all this?

    real high. and the fact he was style ultra competitive in a young mans game for a long time too. Think how many rivals came and went?

    11 World titles and first year on tour was 1989!!!!

    GET OUTSIDE!!!!

    @mariner4life @Hooroo

    If you like surfing docos, have a watch of Kissed By God, story of Andy Irons - he won the world title 3 years straight, 2002, 2003 & 2004 - Slater won in 2005 as the oldest winner ever, and Irons spiraled into a life of drugs and depression - what could have been!

    This is a decent read also

    Pretty much seen anything to do with surfing.

    Loved the Netflix doco they had during lockdown last year. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called but they were really tight knit all those top end guys in the 90's

    voodooV 1 Reply Last reply
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