Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
If that stance was to come out publicly, it would be extraordinary. They're basically saying, that despite seeing no health risk (as evidenced by allowing NZers to come to Oz quarantine-free), they are prepared to lock in their citizens from travelling to this safe zone,
for purely economic reasons?That is totally fucked up
also, when you think about it, it involves the Aus Government saying to the NZ gov't "yep, kiwis can come here. But can you guys keep your end quarantined though? It'll be better for both of us economically. Sure, we will be able to take the high road and show our border is open, but you guys can afford the hit..."
It's fucking outrageous
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What I was told was from a senior advisor to the govt and reflects his interpretation of what he has been told by govt figures about what they think Aussies true position is.
Obviously Aussie aren't going to acknowledge it, but I would give it some credence. It looks very familiar to our own position re places like the Cooks. Nothing in it for us - so why bother?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
What I was told was from a senior advisor to the govt and reflects his interpretation of what he has been told by govt figures about what they think Aussies true position is.
Obviously Aussie aren't going to acknowledge it, but I would give it some credence. It looks very familiar to our own position re places like the Cooks. Nothing in it for us - so why bother?
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
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@mariner4life and I'm not saying it's accurate I was just passing on what I heard. Your scenario about NZ relaxing the border at the moment raises an interesting scenario but one that no one would give any credence to.
Kiwi's have been able to travel to Singapore without quarantining for months. It's the two weeks when you get back plus having to pay that turns people off. Plus ya know Singapore closed doesn't sound all that peachy.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
the federal tourism minister told me the exact opposite a week ago. He was hoping by the end of March, but seemed resigned to later
I don't think both of you can be right......
This is politics, of course they can
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
In practice the Australia border has already closed twice to non-quarantine travel from NZ with roughly six hours notice. It's the no-alcohol beer of open borders for appearances, rather than anything of substance that business travel or a tourism industry could rely on yet.
Edit: it allows the Australian govt to say with a straight face to their local tourism industry that they are genuinely trying to open things up, while also sending a message across the Ta$man that they're not completely serious about sticking it out for now.
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@donsteppa to be fair, the borders inside the goddam country do the same thing
I'm not discounting it, it's actually pretty smart.
It would just fuck me off no end.
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
In practice the Australia border has already closed twice to non-quarantine travel from NZ with roughly six hours notice. It's the no-alcohol beer of open borders for appearances, rather than anything of substance that business travel or a tourism industry could rely on yet.
Edit: it allows the Australian govt to say with a straight face to their local tourism industry that they are genuinely trying to open things up, while also sending a message across the Ta$man that they're not completely serious about sticking it out for now.
Closing an open border for a 3 day window is an annoyance, but hardly evident of a reluctance to do business. It doesn't stop you doing business or stop people choosing to travel, at least not completely.
If NZ dropped quarantine for us here in Oz, I'd be on the next plane home to see my Mum, well aware of the risk of those borders potentially shutting for a window
And if the reason that I cant do that is down to Australia deciding that they want their tourism dollars spent domestically, then that is an absolute disgrace.
Whats next? Will they limit me to 1x overseas holiday per year post-covid? Can I buy goods online from overseas?
It's very shitty, and I sincerely hope it's not true.
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I think part of the issue is that having developed criteria for hot spots, the Australian government ignores them when reinstating quarantine as soon as we have a community case. As long as they can't even stick to their own rules, it's hard to have much faith in their stated position. I can see how an Kiwi advisor or politician would get cynical quickly...
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think part of the issue is that having developed criteria for hot spots, the Australian government ignores them when reinstating quarantine as soon as we have a community case. As long as they can't even stick to their own rules, it's hard to have much faith in their stated position. I can see how an Kiwi advisor or politician would get cynical quickly...
No issue with that, I can understand NZ driving the process. It's Australia potentially not wanting the reciprocal right to go to NZ that's winding me up!
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa to be fair, the borders inside the goddam country do the same thing
I'm not discounting it, it's actually pretty smart.
I'd go with Hanlon's razor on this. The government simply isn't smart enough to come up with such a plan. The PM needs his wife to ask him how he'd feel about his own daughters being raped before he has any empathy. This after hiring an empathy consultant.
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Presumably if we get a case or 2 every other day, all linked to the existing one, there would be no need to change alert levels?
I see scanning numbers have dropped significantly with Auckland dropping back to L1.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
The source was implying that the Australian Gov wants Aussie tourism $ spent domestically, presumably assuming that this is worth more than any potential NZ tourists coming into NZ
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
The source was implying that the Australian Gov wants Aussie tourism $ spent domestically, presumably assuming that this is worth more than any potential NZ tourists coming into NZ
I'd like to see the numbers on that. Considering none of us can travel anywhere else I would have thought that there was plenty of tourists to go around.
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@taniwharugby It's a worry that the teenager worked at Kmart, esp on a Friday and Saturday.
31 close contacts (colleagues) and who knows how many customers.
And then all the places they visited that they don't know about yet.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby It's a worry that the teenager worked at Kmart, esp on a Friday and Saturday.
31 close contacts (colleagues) and who knows how many customers.
And then all the places they visited that they don't know about yet.
I hope she worked because she felt fine, in which case she was far less infectious and it becomes a dead end. Because I really don't want to go back into L3 again....
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One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think it comes down to the contact tracing and how quickly they can track down all the contacts and if need be get them into isolation. The Coronacast podcast in Oz often discusses this - I should take notes so I can better recall what they say.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think they are conscious that the public will become increasingly intolerant of long lockdowns. And they were going to take a massive subsidy hit if the lockdown lasted a week. Maybe they are getting better at contact tracing too