2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA
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@machpants said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@bovidae said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
The proposal to move the Lions tour to the UK had the SA provinces playing their scheduled games against the Lions there too. That seems like a much more attractive option for SA rugby, as it's not just about the test matches.
No way they could afford to fly, quarantine, etc 5 or 6 extra teams over for that, it is not going to happen. The simple fact is, Covid has fucked Uk and SA, and if the Lions and SA want to make some money it is Oz. Admitedly the UK is on the up with their vaccine roll out, so maybe they could play there. In which case it is probably the Boks that need the warm up games!
But what money will it make? That's the thing I don't get. There will be no tour groups, no travelling fans & subsequently no little boom for hotels etc. Broadcast revenue will be less due to the time zone (remember UK & SA are basically the same) so that more or less just leaves ticket sales. And that needs to offset the extra value in broadcast rights in UK / SA. The only people absolutely filling their boots will be the local pubs / bars in Oz .. and they ain't going to shift their profits to SA are they!
The 3 tests will get massive crowds at a good price. Say 150 a ticket, 60k average thats good ... thats 27 mill. Lets be honest, the super matches are unlikely to turn a profit without travelling fans. So how much will be costs, and how much will SA get? I can't see it being an more than 10mill AUD.
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The prospect of the British and Irish Lions proceeding with their tour of South Africa as scheduled this summer remains a live option after officials requested more information on Friday (Saturday NZT) and time before making a final call. The only firm decision taken by the eight-man Lions board, which is chaired by Jason Leonard, was to rule out the option of relocating the tour to Australia. Rugby Australia had made a bold offer to host the eight-match series Down Under, including the promise of capacity crowds for three test matches to be played at major stadiums in Perth, Sydney and Brisbane, given the almost zero community transmission of the virus in the country. However, it is understood that Rugby Australia's offer of a minimum guarantee to cover the costs of relocating the tour and the loss of revenue in the event of a short-notice lockdown was not enough to make it a viable option. There was also concern about the guarantee of capacity crowds. Rugby Australia had been dealing directly with the South African Rugby Union, as tour host, but the Lions board also decided to turn down the offer. (...) -
@majorrage said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@machpants said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@bovidae said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
The proposal to move the Lions tour to the UK had the SA provinces playing their scheduled games against the Lions there too. That seems like a much more attractive option for SA rugby, as it's not just about the test matches.
No way they could afford to fly, quarantine, etc 5 or 6 extra teams over for that, it is not going to happen. The simple fact is, Covid has fucked Uk and SA, and if the Lions and SA want to make some money it is Oz. Admitedly the UK is on the up with their vaccine roll out, so maybe they could play there. In which case it is probably the Boks that need the warm up games!
But what money will it make? That's the thing I don't get. There will be no tour groups, no travelling fans & subsequently no little boom for hotels etc. Broadcast revenue will be less due to the time zone (remember UK & SA are basically the same) so that more or less just leaves ticket sales. And that needs to offset the extra value in broadcast rights in UK / SA. The only people absolutely filling their boots will be the local pubs / bars in Oz .. and they ain't going to shift their profits to SA are they!
The 3 tests will get massive crowds at a good price. Say 150 a ticket, 60k average thats good ... thats 27 mill. Lets be honest, the super matches are unlikely to turn a profit without travelling fans. So how much will be costs, and how much will SA get? I can't see it being an more than 10mill AUD.
Not a surprise they decided against it, just to uncertain. Even though covid is well under control here in Aus, and the vaccine roll out will be under way by then, there's still no certainty. Just takes one small outbreak in Sydney for stadium capacity to be halved and WA to close the borders for a month.
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Given Boris has said we're fully open in the UK from June, can't it work in the UK with fans now? The tests were originally scheduled for July so there's a few weeks wiggle room. Probably not worth the SA provincial sides coming over but I'm sure they can get warm up games against local premiership sides, or an SA exiles/barbarians team
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@tewaio said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
Given Boris has said we're fully open in the UK from June, can't it work in the UK with fans now? The tests were originally scheduled for July so there's a few weeks wiggle room. Probably not worth the SA provincial sides coming over but I'm sure they can get warm up games against local premiership sides, or an SA exiles/barbarians team
My flabber will be gasted if we’re fully open in June
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I'm not living in the UK any more, but from what I hear Boris has as much awareness and control of the situation as a boysenberry in a juice bar. Things are definitely moving in a very positive direction, but like Mike I'll be surprised if they can have anything like 100% capacity. And I think Boris only controls England (in terms of restrictions), the Welsh, Scots and Irish will all have their own.
England more than capable of hosting it alone of course, but feels like if we are going to have a "home tour" it should cover all 4 nations.
On that subject, 4 home nations but 3 tests - who misses out on housting one? Wpuld make sense to extend it to 4 tests I guess, given that there won't be provincial matches.
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Sparky's Lions
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Jones (Wales)
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Owens. (Wales)
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Furlong (Ireland)
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Henderson (Ireland)
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Wyn Jones (Captain) (Wales)
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Navindi (Wales)
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Underhill (England), if fit, or Watson (Scotland)
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Faletu (Wales)
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Murray (Ireland)
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Russell (Scotland)
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May (England)
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Davies (Wales), maybe Aki (Ireland)
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Tuilagi (England), if fit, or North (Wales)
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Rees- Zammitt (Wales)
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Hogg (Scotland)
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George (England)
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M Vunapola (England)
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Francis (Wales)
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Gray (Scotland)
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Sandler (Ireland)
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Youngs (England)
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Sexton (Ireland)
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Liam Williams (Wales)
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@sparky said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
Sparky's Lions
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Jones (Wales)
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Owens. (Wales)
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Furlong (Ireland)
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Henderson (Ireland)
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Wyn Jones (Captain) (Wales)
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Navindi (Wales)
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Underhill (England), if fit, or Watson (Scotland)
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Faletu (Wales)
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Murray (Ireland)
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Russell (Scotland)
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May (England)
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Davies (Wales), maybe Aki (Ireland)
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Tuilagi (England), if fit, or North (Wales)
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Rees- Zammitt (Wales)
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Hogg (Scotland)
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George (England)
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M Vunapola (England)
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Francis (Wales)
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Gray (Scotland)
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Sandler (Ireland)
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Youngs (England)
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Sexton (Ireland)
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Liam Williams (Wales)
May, Tuilagi, Youngs nowhere near the 23
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- Jones (Wales)
- Owens (Wales)
- Furlong (Ireland)
- Henderson (Ireland)
- Wyn Jones (Captain) (Wales)
- Beirne (Ireland)
- Watson (Scotland)
- Faletau (Wales)
- Murray (Ireland)
- Sexton (Ireland)
- Earls (Ireland)
- Henshaw (Ireland)
- North (Wales)
- Rees- Zammitt (Wales)
- Hogg (Scotland)
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@mikethesnow That looks about right. But if I were a Bok, I'd much rather be facing a starting 10 with Sexton's limited distribution skills and predictable than a mercurial, magician like Finn Russell.
I know Earls outplayed him yesterday (behind the much better pack) , but I still think Jonny May has more about his game.
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I can't remember a Lions year ever that's been this open in terms of selection. Normally there's 3 or 4 or 5 players that everyone would agree are nailed on for the test team, but this I can't think of a single one.
That's partly bad news - key players like Farrell and Itoje who you would have expected to be certainties having a dip in form - and partly good news - a lot of very good players in some positions. There are going to be some seriously good back rowers missing out on a jersey this year
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@sparky said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@mikethesnow That looks about right. But if I were a Bok, I'd much rather be facing a starting 10 with Sexton's limited distribution skills and predictable than a mercurial, magician like Finn Russell.
I know Earls outplayed him yesterday (behind the much better pack) , but I still think Jonny May has more about his game.
Is Adams not getting a look in from anyone? Maybe my welsh bias is getting in the way, but I'd have him in the mix, and ahead of May on current form.
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@gibbonrib said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@sparky said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@mikethesnow That looks about right. But if I were a Bok, I'd much rather be facing a starting 10 with Sexton's limited distribution skills and predictable than a mercurial, magician like Finn Russell.
I know Earls outplayed him yesterday (behind the much better pack) , but I still think Jonny May has more about his game.
Is Adams not getting a look in from anyone? Maybe my welsh bias is getting in the way, but I'd have him in the mix, and ahead of May on current form.
Close call between him and Earls (I know moving Earls to left)
Watson or Liam Williams on bench for me - can cover both wing and Full Back
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@mikethesnow Liam Williams brain explosion yesterday might hurt him, but still a very, very good player IMHO.
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@bones said in 2021 British & Irish Lions tour to SA:
@gibbonrib I reckon these names are surely nailed on.
Owens (Wales)
Wyn Jones (Captain) (Wales)
Murray (Ireland)
North (Wales)
Rees- Zammitt (Wales)
Hogg (Scotland)Add just from Wales:
Williams (L)
Biggar
Davies x 2
FaletauLH Jones and Tipiric will be close.
Henshaw/Sexton/Furlong/Berne are nailed on.
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@bones yeah, there's loads that we can be sure will tour, but the starting XV is very very open.
All the ones you named are great players, maybe favourites to start, but plenty of people would have others in there. AWJ is probably the strongest certainty, but that's really down to his strength as a captain (and the other candidates for captain going backwards). If you take that out of the equation he'd still be in the mix, but not a given.
