Coronavirus - Overall
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You achieve herd immunity either in the natural way by enough people catching the virus and surviving or via vaccination coupled with natural selection. With a virus that is as transmissible as this natural selection would be a disastrous route. From what I gather the Swedish approach was less about achieving natural herd immunity but more that lockdowns were an unnecessary restriction. As a comparison to Sweden’s two close neighbours, Finland has had around 18k infections per 1M of population, Norway has had around 24k per 1M and Sweden has had over 108k per 1M.
That leaves them 12th on the table of infections per 1M of population, though if you take out countries that have less than 2M in population as being outliers then Sweden is 4th.
I don’t see their approach as being particularly successful so far.
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@catogrande oh I wasnt meaning thiers was great/bad, but wasnt thiers more a personal responsibility one as opposed to here are the rules (regardless of how strict/loose lockdowns were)
Even so, still must be enough data out there in the world now of multiple infected persons and vaccinated ones, although I suppose many countries have been struggling to keep thier heads above water let alone supply all sorts of data?
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I don't think we will ever really know what approach was best or should I say least worse, there are too many factors at play and of course it is still way too early to make any conclusions.
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@catogrande just look at Fiji, where they have basically let everyone do what they want.
Yeah on one hand you can say NZ did a great job, but flip it over and those of us living here can still see the tunnel is blocked at the other end with no idea what is on the other side or when they will see some light.
My main point though, was more wondering if there is data for those who have had covid (given the prior talk of herd immunity, that as you say, is achieved 2 ways) and is there been much evidence around those who have already had it and thier immune response, and if there is, surely having the vaccine improves it further.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Analysis of India's excess mortality rates suggests India has suffered over 4 million COVID deaths!
Yep, up to a factor of 10 underreported.
But this number was derived by modelling.
And we all know how accurate Covid modelling has been.
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Analysis of India's excess mortality rates suggests India has suffered over 4 million COVID deaths!
Yep, up to a factor of 10 underreported.
But this number was derived by modelling.
And we all know how accurate Covid modelling has been.
Yes but there comes a time when modelling does tell you the picture, even if that is a bit blurry - ie even if the modelling is 50% out of whack that is either 2 million or 6 million deaths. Just huge numbers.
A bit like a convo I had with a GP about BMI as a measurement for obesity and I trotted out the usual, "Steve Redgrave was morbidly obese as measured by his BMI and he did't do too bad". His reply was that to use BMI on an individual or a certain sub section such as Olympic athletes or rugby players was useless but when applied to society as a whole or geographically, demographically etc it was a very useful barometer.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A bit like a convo I had with a GP about BMI as a measurement for obesity and I trotted out the usual, "Steve Redgrave was morbidly obese as measured by his BMI and he did't do too bad". His reply was that to use BMI on an individual or a certain sub section such as Olympic athletes or rugby players was useless but when applied to society as a whole or geographically, demographically etc it was a very useful barometer.
This is the correct answer.
So all these shitty 'calculate your BMI' tools can be super misleading.
That said, it's typically a good indicator for people. Very few of us are elite athletes (unless Keyboard Warrior counts)
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A bit like a convo I had with a GP about BMI as a measurement for obesity and I trotted out the usual, "Steve Redgrave was morbidly obese as measured by his BMI and he did't do too bad". His reply was that to use BMI on an individual or a certain sub section such as Olympic athletes or rugby players was useless but when applied to society as a whole or geographically, demographically etc it was a very useful barometer.
This is the correct answer.
So all these shitty 'calculate your BMI' tools can be super misleading.
That said, it's typically a good indicator for people. Very few of us are elite athletes (unless Keyboard Warrior counts)
Unfortunately not in my case.
BMI in itself is a raw number.
Put BMI with % body fat ...
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@booboo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A bit like a convo I had with a GP about BMI as a measurement for obesity and I trotted out the usual, "Steve Redgrave was morbidly obese as measured by his BMI and he did't do too bad". His reply was that to use BMI on an individual or a certain sub section such as Olympic athletes or rugby players was useless but when applied to society as a whole or geographically, demographically etc it was a very useful barometer.
This is the correct answer.
So all these shitty 'calculate your BMI' tools can be super misleading.
That said, it's typically a good indicator for people. Very few of us are elite athletes (unless Keyboard Warrior counts)
Unfortunately not in my case.
BMI in itself is a raw number.
Put BMI with % body fat ...
Iiiiin one!
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Analysis of India's excess mortality rates suggests India has suffered over 4 million COVID deaths!
Per capita, this number (x 10) would put India about same as Hungary, Bosnia, Czech Rep etc. at about 3000 per million. Plausible.
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I'm not (really) a concpiracy theorist but i do believe in "follow the money"
Pfizer is making a nice wedge off this little vaccine caper (as they are entitled to, fuck me what they have pulled off in a year)
saw a little story pop up that maybe a 3rd dose of the Pfizer might be needed.
now THAT is a business model. Get the media and the Governments to generate your market for you.
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@mariner4life WHO came out saying there is no evidence of a requirement for a third dose and that having one gives no additional protection. Hopefully the politicians were listening.
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@nzzp No difference between Pfizer, AZ and the non-vaccinated population without Covid in terms of harmful blood clots. It was all fake news.
Absolutely shameful to say the least that Macron and some other EU leaders chose to thrash a cheap, safe vaccine that could have saved millions of lives.