New Lynn knife attack
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He should have got the treatment the Aussies give to 501's.
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@aucklandwarlord there’s a gap in the laws. The below is an extract from
In July 2020, the High Court decision, R v S, found that planning or preparation to carry out a terrorist act is not criminalised in the TSA. New Zealand has obligation under the United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 1373 (2001) to criminalise terrorism-related planning or preparation.
This also leaves a gap in our own ability to prevent terrorism. Case studies from agencies highlighted that this gap in the law could hinder their ability to intervene early to prevent a terrorist attack. The judge also noted that “the absence of an offence of planning or preparing a terrorist act (falling short of existing inchoate offences) could be an Achilles heel” and that Australia and the United Kingdom have this offence.
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@act-crusader said in New Lynn knife attack:
In July 2020, the High Court decision, R v S, found that planning or preparation to carry out a terrorist act is not criminalised in the TSA. New Zealand has obligation under the United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 1373 (2001) to criminalise terrorism-related planning or preparation.
Definitely. I've heard on good oil that the terrorism suppression act is basically impossible to use. But for clear-cut cases like Tarrant who wrote a manifesto about why he was doing it, it's apparently almost impossible to work within so the Solicitor General (who has to give approval before terrorism charges can be laid) takes an incredibly cautious approach and doesn't approve them.
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@aucklandwarlord agree, he came to NZ in 2011, but after 5 years as a resident, deporting someone requires a 5+ year sentence (or life/preventive detention). After 10 years, it can only be done if they leave for 5 years (in which case the clock starts again) or national security, or if he obtained the original residence visa fraudulently.
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Quoting in part from a Herald paywalled article published on the 16th of August:
The Crown sought to prosecute a 32-year-old man — known only as "S" for legal reasons — under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, but a High Court judge ruled that preparing a terrorist attack was not in itself an offence under the legislation.
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The case illustrates a flaw in New Zealand's counterterrorism powers that police and security agencies have long argued constrains their ability to keep the public safe from violent extremists — but which successive governments failed to resolve.
In a July 2020 ruling before S stood trial, which could not be reported until now, Justice Matthew Downs acknowledged there was a serious threat to public safety from "lone wolf" attackers, especially after the Christchurch shootings that killed 51 people and injured 40.
The judge described the absence of an offence of planning a terrorist attack as an "Achilles' heel" hindering the authorities' ability to stop such would-be attackers. But he dismissed the Crown's application to charge S under the anti-terror law, saying it was for Parliament, not the courts, to create an offence of planning an attack.
In a rare move, Justice Downs ordered that a copy of his judgment be sent to the Attorney-General, Solicitor-General and Law Commission.
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Yet 13 months later and we still don't have that law. I don't know heaps about terrorism, but I know a fair bit about implementing other transnational crime law, and it's actually shouldn't be a difficult process to pass in general - there are model laws already written by various relevant IGOs, it's just adapting it to meet your local requirements and then passing it through parliament.
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So for all the talk from Jacinda about hate speech laws to prevent terrorism, the actual law change that can work wasn't prioritised? What the fuck?
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@aucklandwarlord said in New Lynn knife attack:
Yip, my thoughts exactly. Or possibly a refugee, which is even harder to deport once granted because of the threats they face in the country they left.
yeah I always recall in the UK in the early 2000's that extremist with the hook hand, preaching his hate in the UK, couldnt be deported back to Jordan (I think?) because he would be put to death.
In cases like this, I expect there is usually a bit more to it, and sadly bound by seemingly toothless laws in alot of cases.
Just hope all the victims pull through, and glad there is 1 less burden our the NZ Taxpayers, because the 24/7 surveillance must cost a decent chunk - I expect there are others out there under 24/7 surveillance too, if any good comes form this, maybe to change the laws to enable something to be done to prevent this kind of thing.
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@aucklandwarlord said in New Lynn knife attack:
This is something the general public should be angry about though, our unworkable suppression of terrorism law and generally soft court system
"Last year, the Crown had sought to prosecute S under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002, but a High Court judge ruled that preparing a terrorist attack was not in itself an offence under the legislation."
"S was (sentenced) on lesser charges. On May 26 this year, he was (convicted) by a jury of possessing propaganda-style material supportive of Islamic State. He was acquitted on other charges of possessing a graphic video depicting a prisoner being decapitated and possession of an offensive weapon. According to a report in July this year, S has "the means and motivation to commit violence in the community". He was sentenced to one year of supervision"
Supervision for that, when he's previously been seen as having the means and motivation to perpetrate violence on the community? I don't get why if the cops do a poor job, they can be sanctioned by the IPCA, but judges can give out shithouse sentences and release people back into the community in defiance of facts, who go on to do harm, yet there is no comeback.
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Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
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@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
So for all the talk from Jacinda about hate speech laws to prevent terrorism, the actual law change that can work wasn't prioritised? What the fuck?
That wouldn't get praise from the global media. Much more effective to focus on banning guns and hate speech
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@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
As opposed to two years later.
The world still needs to have conversations about racism and white supremacy, New Zealand’s Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Monday, as the country marked two years since a white supremacist attacked two mosques in the city of Christchurch. -
@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
This, this and this fucking again.
God I'm sick of this shit, pandering to crap. This is 100% a fucking faith thing & everybody knows it. Does it mean all of Islam supports this, is capable of this and thus we should be extremely wary of Muslims? Of course it absolutely doesn't. Only idiots think that.
And the idiots that think that aren't going to change their mind because Jacinda says he doesn't represent any faith.
When she says this bullshit, there really should be a journalist in the room taking her to task. It's a straight out lie.
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@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
We'd certainly hear about his ideology and beliefs if he was a fascist white guy.
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@booboo said in New Lynn knife attack:
@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
We'd certainly hear about his ideology and beliefs if he was a fascist white guy.
Actually typed (or meant to tyoe) racist... but auto correct after typo ... still works
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What I'd like to know is whether this guy was attending and participating in any organized religious activities, and then, of course, the extent to which they were aware and cognizant of his ideas (and potential for action).
I agree with @No-Quarter and think that an interesting story here would be to point out that if you are an institution in NZ, were you in any way ignoring any potential danger signs?
I'd feel the same way whether the perpetrator was a crazy christian or a crazy muslim, and I think most kiwis would. Only to have a functioning press I guess.
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@gt12 said in New Lynn knife attack:
What I'd like to know is whether this guy was attending and participating in any organized religious activities, and then, of course, the extent to which they were aware and cognizant of his ideas (and potential for action).
I agree with @No-Quarter and think that an interesting story here would be to point out that if you are an institution in NZ, were you in any way ignoring any potential danger signs?
I'd feel the same way whether the perpetrator was a crazy christian or a crazy muslim, and I think most kiwis would. Only to have a functioning press I guess.
Why on earth would that be done? It's not religious mate, it's just a nutter. No research should be done anything to do with his religious movements as it's not a faith thing.
That's basically what Cindy is saying.
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@sparky said in New Lynn knife attack:
What a dickhead. Hats off to the police who shot him.
I hope all the injured pull through. Grateful to their medical care.
A review of public security and screening of other, potential terrorists by the NZ government is urgent.
Why? They know who these people are and thought they had the legislation to stop them but have been rebuffed by the courts when it was used.
There’s no failure of intelligence or operations here. It’s legal swots in the courts vs legal swots writing the legislation. -
@majorrage said in New Lynn knife attack:
@no-quarter said in New Lynn knife attack:
Jacinda saying this guy "doesn't represent any faith" is such a load of shit and just pours petrol on the fire. He follows a version of Islam, sure not the version most Muslims follow but to claim it has nothing to do with it is just fucking bananas. God she's an idiot.
This, this and this fucking again.
God I'm sick of this shit, pandering to crap. This is 100% a fucking faith thing & everybody knows it. Does it mean all of Islam supports this, is capable of this and thus we should be extremely wary of Muslims? Of course it absolutely doesn't. Only idiots think that.
And the idiots that think that aren't going to change their mind because Jacinda says he doesn't represent any faith.
When she says this bullshit, there really should be a journalist in the room taking her to task. It's a straight out lie.
He represents an ideology that is connected to a faith not a faith itself.
But then wearing face coverings is also an ideology connected to a faith. 🤔