The State of the Game

[mariner4life]

I get picked on because i reckon modern rugby is fucked

but when one of the guys who is the first to pull me up on it posts this

More obscene officiating. I'm with @mariner4life the game is fucked.

He was nowhere near the action and the English player ran into him.

Then maybe something is wrong

Now, i thought the ref himself was excellent on Sunday morning for the AB game. I thought he communicated well, and made pretty much the right calls. However i fucking hated the "ref team" and in particular i fucking hated how much the TMO is now involved. Effectively, rather than a way to check certain points, we have a guy watching multiple camera angles acting like a 2nd ref.

My question is, has it actually made the game any better? The games themselves take a fucking age. There are a lot more extended rest breaks now while we have a look at 40 replays and have a chat. Are the decisions even material? The Reece knock-on. That took 5 minutes. Would anyone have cared, i mean really cared, if the original decision was given? Every single try was looked at. And that's a problem, a non-stop fluid game is now being refereed in super slow-mo.

And the players are picking up on it. How many times did the ref have to tell Sexton off for asking for shit to be reviewed all the time? He's constantly in his ear, even more than normal.

The Aus v England game is loaded with whinges.

This is not making the game a better spectacle. In fact it is having the opposite affect. And it's not stopping fans whinging about refs, which is where this all came from, it's just shifted the focus.

I hate it.

[mariner4life]

There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.

[Kiwiwomble]

@mariner4life yes, i thought all in all the Ref himself was actually very good, biggest critique was the time wasting and how long he allowed every to take to set scrums etc

...when the TMO started saying things like, "give me a sec and i'll freeze it right where there is head contact"...was not a fan

[Bovidae]

When Pearce has been the ref this year, you can add 10 mins to each half with all of his chats with the TMO.

[canefan]

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.

The on pitch convos got really old really fast. That first YC was farcical, everything can be made to look bad on slo mo, these refs don't understand context anymore

[ACT Crusader]

@bovidae said in The State of the Game:

When Pearce has been the ref this year, you can add 10 mins to each half with all of his chats with the TMO.

Probably has a side gig going with one of the big advertisers…

I said a few years ago that we were going the way of NFL with the reliance on replays and 3 refs huddled watching large screen replays and whilst I’m not a fan because it really ruins the spectacle in my view. And they don’t always get it right anyway…

The problem is we have game reviewers and ref committees etc who “pick up” stuff and so this stuff gets raised in post game reviews and then said committees raise and then it becomes a ‘focus’. The majority of fans then question what is going on when something gets adjudicated in a different way.

Even for some of the fans that follow this stuff closely and read World Rugby press releases are left bewildered at the actual outcomes of these ref by committee results.

[canefan]

Doesn't help when the crowd want to judge by evidence on the big screen. I remember they didn't show TV replays on the big screen at a Wembley football match I went to, maybe for fear of the fans going nuts seeing some perceived injustice inflicted on their team?

[Duluth]

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.

I think the interruptions are here to stay (because of head injuries and legal issues if they aren't strict on it)
If that's the case, then we need a better process

A stricter limit on the types of general play incidents that the TMO can interject on

I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.

[Bovidae]

The dominance of the TMO is definitely a WR-driven move as the same thing was happening in the 4 tests I watched yesterday (one being the Black Ferns test).

[Kruse]

One thing I noticed during the NZ-Ireland game... with NZ commentators - you could hear them getting more and more frustrated with the TMO. At times, they were pretty much insinuating that the TMO was biased and outright looking for issues.

During the "investigation" which led to the YC, one of them said "yep, they're just going to go through all the angles, until they find what they're looking for" - as angle after angle showed nothing wrong, until one suggested that maybe there was some contact to the head (a gentle pat on the cheek, if I recall) - and sure enough - that became "the last and only angle" - zoomed in on.

And I think one of them also made the comment that "here in the Northern Hemisphere, the TMO acts more like a 2nd ref - constantly looking for stuff".

In some ways - I think this is just like nearly every problem you can point to in Rugby. It's not necessarily a matter of the laws/guidelines being wrong/broken - rather just applying them... properly.
There's clear guidelines about when the TMO should/can be involved... and over the weekend, they weren't being followed.

Oh - and as soon as Johnny Farrell or Owen Sexton, or Coles/Perenara starts yapping at the ref... the ref can obviously politely tell them to be quiet, "trust the process", etc as happened on the weekend. Or... just say "Shut the fuck up". Cool. A single fucking word after that... walk them 5 metres. Or 10 metres. Or just start meandering downfield, until they shut up... and that's the new restart location.

[Kiwiwomble]

@kruse agreed

i will add that as the premier rugby team in the world...we should be preparing for that, you dont rock up on a rainy day in turf boots and complain things should be different

you play to the ref/whistle, none of these things are really a surprise

[nzzp]

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

you play to the ref/whistle, none of these things are really a surprise

I over-reacted and turned off at the Codie Taylor yellow. Just did my nut that this is now a yellow card - when other head contact just gets ignored. TMO are just so frustrating with that; if they start looking for something, it seems they want to finish with a card of some form.

[Kiwiwomble]

you missed what actually found a pretty enjoyable game, just care less about a lot of these games that are effectively friendlies...don't get me wrong, would very much rather have won

[mariner4life]

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

these games that are effectively friendlies

Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.

[canefan]

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

these games that are effectively friendlies

Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.

[Kiwiwomble]

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

these games that are effectively friendlies

Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.

i came here for a god time...not a long time...peace

[canefan]

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:

these games that are effectively friendlies

Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.

i came here for a god time...not a long time...peace

In true covid19 style, pivot and move forward....

[Duluth]

@duluth said in The State of the Game:

I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.

Just explaining this a bit better. Here are things wrong with the process currently

• The length of the negotiation between the TMO, Ref & 'Assistant Refs'
• The code they speak with (TMO:'I just want you to watch this angle again and consider the point of contact' etc)
• Players trying to influence the process as it happens
• The fact the on field officials are watching on the big screen and the TMO has a TV inches in front of him. Often it just gets sent to the TMO anyway because he has a better view
• The big screen is shown to the crowd and the panto booing starts

By allowing the TMO to make the call one person is responsible. His career, his livelihood depends on being accurate. No sharing of blame.

The crowd does not need to see a replay until the decision is made. They should have no influence

There's no point the players complaining to the ref. He didn't make the call

A time limit could be applied because the process is simpler

Because of the head injury concern the interjections aren't going anywhere. This is about as simple, and therefore as quick, as you can make it.

[NTA]

Captain's challenge - you get 1 per half, right or wrong. That's it. Maximum of 3 angles replayed in real time for the onfield sanction and NOT shown on the big screen. Fucking crowds don't know the Laws anyway; at one point the Irish were hollering for a knock on that an AB player quite clearly knocked back.

@Duluth makes a great point about protecting the head and the legal issues World Rugby need to address in light of that, so I propose a post-match Judicial review as per normal, but with a focus on all tackles.

Any Offence not dealt with onfield to be judged by the high tackle framework and sanction as follows:

• Red card = appropriate sanction according to the Judicial framework already in place
• 2 x YC in the same game is automatic 1 game ban
• Yellow card = warning carries through to next post-match review. If you go YC 2 weeks in a row and it isn't picked up, goneskis. if you keep your nose clean, it expires, and has nothing to do with onfield cards.

Or something.

P.S. All players receiving high tackles are required to have an HIA. No exceptions. If we're actually protecting the head, this should be compulsory For The Good Of Player Welfare.

[Nepia]

@duluth said in The State of the Game:

@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:

There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.

I think the interruptions are here to stay (because of head injuries and legal issues if they aren't strict on it)
If that's the case, then we need a better process

A stricter limit on the types of general play incidents that the TMO can interject on

I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.

I think they should just put it up on the big screen, show each angle a maximum of twice, the on field ref makes the decision.