The State of the Game
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Doesn't help when the crowd want to judge by evidence on the big screen. I remember they didn't show TV replays on the big screen at a Wembley football match I went to, maybe for fear of the fans going nuts seeing some perceived injustice inflicted on their team?
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.
I think the interruptions are here to stay (because of head injuries and legal issues if they aren't strict on it)
If that's the case, then we need a better processA stricter limit on the types of general play incidents that the TMO can interject on
I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with. -
One thing I noticed during the NZ-Ireland game... with NZ commentators - you could hear them getting more and more frustrated with the TMO. At times, they were pretty much insinuating that the TMO was biased and outright looking for issues.
During the "investigation" which led to the YC, one of them said "yep, they're just going to go through all the angles, until they find what they're looking for" - as angle after angle showed nothing wrong, until one suggested that maybe there was some contact to the head (a gentle pat on the cheek, if I recall) - and sure enough - that became "the last and only angle" - zoomed in on.
And I think one of them also made the comment that "here in the Northern Hemisphere, the TMO acts more like a 2nd ref - constantly looking for stuff".
In some ways - I think this is just like nearly every problem you can point to in Rugby. It's not necessarily a matter of the laws/guidelines being wrong/broken - rather just applying them... properly.
There's clear guidelines about when the TMO should/can be involved... and over the weekend, they weren't being followed.Oh - and as soon as Johnny Farrell or Owen Sexton, or Coles/Perenara starts yapping at the ref... the ref can obviously politely tell them to be quiet, "trust the process", etc as happened on the weekend. Or... just say "Shut the fuck up". Cool. A single fucking word after that... walk them 5 metres. Or 10 metres. Or just start meandering downfield, until they shut up... and that's the new restart location.
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@kruse agreed
i will add that as the premier rugby team in the world...we should be preparing for that, you dont rock up on a rainy day in turf boots and complain things should be different
you play to the ref/whistle, none of these things are really a surprise
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@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
you play to the ref/whistle, none of these things are really a surprise
I over-reacted and turned off at the Codie Taylor yellow. Just did my nut that this is now a yellow card - when other head contact just gets ignored. TMO are just so frustrating with that; if they start looking for something, it seems they want to finish with a card of some form.
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you missed what actually found a pretty enjoyable game, just care less about a lot of these games that are effectively friendlies...don't get me wrong, would very much rather have won
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@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
these games that are effectively friendlies
Ban.
This.
fluffybunny. -
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
these games that are effectively friendlies
Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.
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@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
these games that are effectively friendlies
Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.i came here for a god time...not a long time...peace
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@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
@kiwiwomble said in The State of the Game:
these games that are effectively friendlies
Ban.
This.
fluffybunny.i came here for a god time...not a long time...peace
In true covid19 style, pivot and move forward....
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@duluth said in The State of the Game:
I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.Just explaining this a bit better. Here are things wrong with the process currently
- The length of the negotiation between the TMO, Ref & 'Assistant Refs'
- The code they speak with (TMO:'I just want you to watch this angle again and consider the point of contact' etc)
- Players trying to influence the process as it happens
- The fact the on field officials are watching on the big screen and the TMO has a TV inches in front of him. Often it just gets sent to the TMO anyway because he has a better view
- The big screen is shown to the crowd and the panto booing starts
By allowing the TMO to make the call one person is responsible. His career, his livelihood depends on being accurate. No sharing of blame.
The crowd does not need to see a replay until the decision is made. They should have no influence
There's no point the players complaining to the ref. He didn't make the call
A time limit could be applied because the process is simpler
Because of the head injury concern the interjections aren't going anywhere. This is about as simple, and therefore as quick, as you can make it.
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Captain's challenge - you get 1 per half, right or wrong. That's it. Maximum of 3 angles replayed in real time for the onfield sanction and NOT shown on the big screen. Fucking crowds don't know the Laws anyway; at one point the Irish were hollering for a knock on that an AB player quite clearly knocked back.
@Duluth makes a great point about protecting the head and the legal issues World Rugby need to address in light of that, so I propose a post-match Judicial review as per normal, but with a focus on all tackles.
Any Offence not dealt with onfield to be judged by the high tackle framework and sanction as follows:
- Red card = appropriate sanction according to the Judicial framework already in place
- 2 x YC in the same game is automatic 1 game ban
- Yellow card = warning carries through to next post-match review. If you go YC 2 weeks in a row and it isn't picked up, goneskis. if you keep your nose clean, it expires, and has nothing to do with onfield cards.
Or something.
P.S. All players receiving high tackles are required to have an HIA. No exceptions. If we're actually protecting the head, this should be compulsory For The Good Of Player Welfare.
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@duluth said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.
I think the interruptions are here to stay (because of head injuries and legal issues if they aren't strict on it)
If that's the case, then we need a better processA stricter limit on the types of general play incidents that the TMO can interject on
I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.I think they should just put it up on the big screen, show each angle a maximum of twice, the on field ref makes the decision.
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If the on-field ref is someone similar to Jono Bredin, I'd like the TMO to take the decision. But if the TMO is someone like Jono Bredin, I'd prefer the on-field ref to take the decision.
In other words, some officials are so bad that it is actually a good thing that they discuss an incident with each other and then maybe the correct decision will be made.
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World Rugby’s constant tinkering with the Laws, often different in different hemispheres at different times, is a major factor in the differences in interpretation and censure.
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@nepia said in The State of the Game:
@duluth said in The State of the Game:
@mariner4life said in The State of the Game:
There's some interpretation shit i hate too, but my main fucking deal is the TMO and the reffing "team" grinding the game to a halt.
I think the interruptions are here to stay (because of head injuries and legal issues if they aren't strict on it)
If that's the case, then we need a better processA stricter limit on the types of general play incidents that the TMO can interject on
I think the TMO should be responsible for deciding the sanction. Most of the time taken up is by the ref and the TMO talking in code and/or the TMO trying to convince the ref.
That negotiation is farcical. Just hand over responsibility and get it over with.I think they should just put it up on the big screen, show each angle a maximum of twice, the on field ref makes the decision.
Agree Nepia, TMO should only say have a look and then shut up, and not make the decision. The Ref is the ONLY abjucator of the laws of the game while is being played.
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No amount of tinkering prevents this sort of tragedy
That's a TMO who should lose his job and a ref who should be sent to park football.
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@antipodean said in The State of the Game:
No amount of tinkering prevents this sort of tragedy
That's a TMO who should lose his job and a ref who should be sent to park football.
Where was that screened, Pirate TV?
The TMO and ref thought it was a shot to the head.
The NZ commentators and NZ supporters didn’t.
Losing or winning wasn’t determined by that decision.
Move on.
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@antipodean said in The State of the Game:
No amount of tinkering prevents this sort of tragedy
That's a TMO who should lose his job and a ref who should be sent to park football.
The ref has an excuse, he can't see everything and gets one look. The TMO looks numerous times and still screws up
