Crusaders v Waratahs
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="581079" data-time="1463735463"><p>
So we get 5 minutes to see the Crotty/Havili midfield combo. Thanks Toddy.......<br><br><br>
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk</p></blockquote>
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When he came on I yelled out that it was 74 minutes too late -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Tordah" data-cid="581057" data-time="1463734059">
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<p>how was that not a penalty try and YC? McNicholl tackled without the ball as he kicked it</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>With hindsight, that has cost the Crusaders a bonus point. Some bad calls by Jaco in this game.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="581087" data-time="1463736115">
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<p>Very disappointed not to get the bonus point tonight.<br><br>
Interesting that Read played a bit of that 2nd half at lock.<br><br>
Moody, Taylor and Franks I thought were very good around the park.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Yeah - given the weather, I would have been happy with four points - but, to get three tries ahead and then give one back was disappointing - especially to fucking Zac - as if he hadn't already cost us enough over the years. What is it with these ungrateful fuckers! :)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Romano was excellent, McNicholl was excellent, the lineout was excellent. Jaco pissed me off as he usually does - officiously rules out McNicol's excellent try on a bit of a technicality and then completely misses the blatant pull down in the second half - and a few other things (including the little knock on by the halfback that I think would have stopped Zac's try).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ah well, the bonus point will hopefully be neither here nor there in the final wash-up. We probably need to win seven straight from here to win the title.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="581085" data-time="1463735976">
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<p>I know that. No disputing of any laws here.<br><br>
Was just a random thought I had as the Waratah slapped the ball backwards in a potential Crusaders scoring opportunity. Thought to myself, hmmm that's bloody cynical, deliberately slapping the ball away to prevent a try - even though it was backwards. Is it any less cynical that some of the marginal deliberate knock down calls we see?<br><br>
So again, not disputing any laws, just pondering out loud. Its what The Fern is for isn't it?</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>It's an interesting one. If you deliberately knock it forward it used to be yellow card and penalty, whereas by luck the ball could go backwards and you get nothing. The refs don't seem to be calling deliberate knock ons as much anymore so I don't think it is so relevant.</p> -
Considering the conditions that wasnt a bad game.<br><br>
Game went pretty much as predicted. Crusaders forwards were primed coming off their first nz derby since round 2 and in the wet.<br><br>
Romano was good but i'd dial back some of the praise - he excels when the rest of the pack looks great on nights like tonight - thought Sam Whitelock was bloody good himself.<br><br>
Mo'unga, Dagg and McNichol shined in the backs.<br><br>
Folau was excellent in a well beaten side. -
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</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="581104" data-time="1463741643"><p><br>
Romano was good but i'd dial back some of the praise - he excels when the rest of the pack looks great on nights like tonight - thought Sam Whitelock was bloody good himself.<br><br>
Mo'unga, Dagg and McNichol shined in the backs.<br><br>
Folau was excellent in a well beaten side.</p></blockquote>
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Whitelock seemed to be given the job of taking care of Skelton last night, hit him really hard a few times in the tackle and clean out.<br><br>
He wasn't shy of letting him know about it either!<br><br>
Such a welcome change from the pack of pussies that played the tahs last year. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="581133" data-time="1463775652"><p>Whitelock seemed to be given the job of taking care of Skelton last night, hit him really hard a few times in the tackle and clean out.<br>
He wasn't shy of letting him know about it either!<br>
Such a welcome change from the pack of pussies that played the tahs last year.</p></blockquote>
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Agreed. Not sure what the Tahs plan was at kick off either - kept kicking it straight to Whitelock - who gladly accepted and charged straight at the Tahs (usually Skelton). -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="581060" data-time="1463734141"><p>
Question, is a deliberate knock back any less cynical than some of these so called deliberate knock downs?</p></blockquote>
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Weird question Gunner. Am I missing something? What's wrong with knocking the ball backward? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="581080" data-time="1463735479"><p>
yes but that also isnt being done to stop someone scoring a try...</p></blockquote>
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I see there was further discussion...<br><br>
Simple answer is no it is not cynical offending as it is not offending therefore not cynical. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Gunner" data-cid="581085" data-time="1463735976"><p>
I know that. No disputing of any laws here.<br><br>
Was just a random thought I had as the Waratah slapped the ball backwards in a potential Crusaders scoring opportunity. Thought to myself, hmmm that's bloody cynical, deliberately slapping the ball away to prevent a try - even though it was backwards.<strong> Is it any less cynical </strong>that some of the marginal deliberate knock down calls we see?<br><br>
So again, not disputing any laws, just pondering out loud. Its what The Fern is for isn't it?</p></blockquote>
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Yes. See above. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="581093" data-time="1463738835"><p>
With hindsight, that has cost the Crusaders a bonus point. Some bad calls by Jaco in this game.</p></blockquote>
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A couple of obvious errors costing the Cru points. That knock on and tackling FABJM without the ball the standouts. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="581138" data-time="1463777369">
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<p>Weird question Gunner. Am I missing something? What's wrong with knocking the ball backward?</p>
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<p> </p>
<p>I suppose you can look at it in this context.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Suppose you intentionally knock the ball down with the sole intention of preventing the other team scoring.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree forward it is a penalty and yellow card for cynical play.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree backwards it is fine and play on.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet the intent is the same.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Up until a few years ago it was fine to knock the ball down to prevent a try scoring move. Now they've clamped down on it - but only as an intentional knock forward. Should there be a rule against intentional knock downs?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seems to me there is a reasonable case for it.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="581152" data-time="1463782715">
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<p>I suppose you can look at it in this context.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Suppose you intentionally knock the ball down with the sole intention of preventing the other team scoring.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree forward it is a penalty and yellow card for cynical play.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree backwards it is fine and play on.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet the intent is the same.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Up until a few years ago it was fine to knock the ball down to prevent a try scoring move. Now they've clamped down on it - but only as an intentional knock forward. Should there be a rule against intentional knock downs?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seems to me there is a reasonable case for it.</p>
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<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>You mean like winning a line out against the throw. Gee that is such negative play. Imagine competing for the ball and winning it back for your side. Terrible cynical stuff eh?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="581152" data-time="1463782715">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>Up until a few years ago it was fine to knock the ball down to prevent a try scoring move. Now they've clamped down on it - but only as an intentional knock forward. Should there be a rule against intentional knock downs?</p>
<p> </p>
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<p> </p>
<p>Define a "few years".</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=135229'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=135229</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p></p><p></p><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Calibri, Candara, Segoe, 'Segoe UI', Optima, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">His (Lomu's) second (yellow card) was for intentionally knocking down a pass close to the Hurricanes line.</span></blockquote> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="581152" data-time="1463782715">
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<p>I suppose you can look at it in this context.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Suppose you intentionally knock the ball down with the sole intention of preventing the other team scoring.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree forward it is a penalty and yellow card for cynical play.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If it goes one degree backwards it is fine and play on.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet the intent is the same.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Up until a few years ago it was fine to knock the ball down to prevent a try scoring move. Now they've clamped down on it - but only as an intentional knock forward. Should there be a rule against intentional knock downs?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Seems to me there is a reasonable case for it.</p>
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<p>When you knock it forward to prevent a try you're deliberately causing a foul (for want of a better word) by knocking the ball on. When you're knocking it back you're not deliberately causing a foul (again for want of a better word) because you're not deliberately knocking it on. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think that is the distinction.</p>
