Orlando shooting + terrorism thread
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/opinion/sunday/aziz-ansari-why-trump-makes-me-scared-for-my-family.html?_r=0'>http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/opinion/sunday/aziz-ansari-why-trump-makes-me-scared-for-my-family.html?_r=0</a></p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size:12pt;">Aziz Ansari: Why Trump Makes Me Scared for My Family</span></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">By AZIZ ANSARIJUNE 24, 2016 </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">“DON’T go anywhere near a mosque,†I told my mother. “Do all your prayer at home. O.K.?â€</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">“We’re not going,†she replied.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">I am the son of Muslim immigrants. As I sent that text, in the aftermath of the horrible attack in Orlando, Fla., I realized how awful it was to tell an American citizen to be careful about how she worshiped.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">Being Muslim American already carries a decent amount of baggage. In our culture, when people think “Muslim,†the picture in their heads is not usually of the Nobel Peace Prize winner Malala Yousafzai, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or the kid who left the boy band One Direction. It’s of a scary terrorist character from “Homeland†or some monster from the news.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">Today, with the presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and others like him spewing hate speech, prejudice is reaching new levels. It’s visceral, and scary, and it affects how people live, work and pray. It makes me afraid for my family. It also makes no sense.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">There are approximately 3.3 million Muslim Americans. After the attack in Orlando, The Times reported that the F.B.I. is investigating 1,000 potential “homegrown violent extremists,†a majority of whom are most likely connected in some way to the Islamic State. If everyone on that list is Muslim American, that is 0.03 percent of the Muslim American population. If you round that number, it is 0 percent. The overwhelming number of Muslim Americans have as much in common with that monster in Orlando as any white person has with any of the white terrorists who shoot up movie theaters or schools or abortion clinics.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">I asked a young friend of mine, a woman in her 20s of Muslim heritage, how she had been feeling after the attack. “I just feel really bad, like people think I have more in common with that idiot psychopath than I do the innocent people being killed,†she said. “I’m really sick of having to explain that I’m not a terrorist every time the shooter is brown.â€</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">I myself am not a religious person, but after these attacks, anyone that even looks like they might be Muslim understands the feelings my friend described. There is a strange feeling that you must almost prove yourself worthy of feeling sad and scared like everyone else.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">I understand that as far as these problems go, I have it better than most because of my recognizability as an actor. When someone on the street gives me a strange look, it’s usually because they want to take a selfie with me, not that they think I’m a terrorist.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">But I remember how those encounters can feel. A few months after the attacks of Sept. 11, I remember walking home from class near N.Y.U., where I was a student. I was crossing the street and a man swore at me from his car window and yelled: “Terrorist!†To be fair, I may have been too quick to cross the street as the light changed, but I’m not sure that warranted being compared to the perpetrators of one of the most awful incidents in human history.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">The vitriolic and hate-filled rhetoric coming from Mr. Trump isn’t so far off from cursing at strangers from a car window. He has said that people in the American Muslim community “know who the bad ones are,†implying that millions of innocent people are somehow complicit in awful attacks. Not only is this wrongheaded; but it also does nothing to address the real problems posed by terrorist attacks. By Mr. Trump’s logic, after the huge financial crisis of 2007-08, the best way to protect the American economy would have been to ban white males.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">According to reporting by Mother Jones, since 9/11, there have been 49 mass shootings in this country, and more than half of those were perpetrated by white males. I doubt we’ll hear Mr. Trump make a speech asking his fellow white males to tell authorities “who the bad ones are,†or call for restricting white males’ freedoms.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">One way to decrease the risk of terrorism is clear: Keep military-grade weaponry out of the hands of mentally unstable people, those with a history of violence, and those on F.B.I. watch lists. But, despite sit-ins and filibusters, our lawmakers are failing us on this front and choose instead to side with the National Rifle Association. Suspected terrorists can buy assault rifles, but we’re still carrying tiny bottles of shampoo to the airport. If we’re going to use the “they’ll just find another way†argument, let’s use that to let us keep our shoes on.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">Every weekday, get thought-provoking commentary from Op-Ed columnists, The Times editorial board and contributing writers from around the world.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">Xenophobic rhetoric was central to Mr. Trump’s campaign long before the attack in Orlando. This is a guy who kicked off his presidential run by calling Mexicans “rapists†who were “bringing drugs†to this country. Numerous times, he has said that Muslims in New Jersey were cheering in the streets on Sept. 11, 2001. This has been continually disproved, but he stands by it. I don’t know what every Muslim American was doing that day, but I can tell you what my family was doing. I was studying at N.Y.U., and I lived near the World Trade Center. When the second plane hit, I was on the phone with my mother, who called to tell me to leave my dorm building.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">The haunting sound of the second plane hitting the towers is forever ingrained in my head. My building was close enough that it shook upon impact. I was scared for my life as my fellow students and I trekked the panicked streets of Manhattan. My family, unable to reach me on my cellphone, was terrified about my safety as they watched the towers collapse. There was absolutely no cheering. Only sadness, horror and fear.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt;">Mr. Trump, in response to the attack in Orlando, began a tweet with these words: “Appreciate the congrats.†It appears that day he was the one who was celebrating after an attack.</span></p> -
<p>Oh yeah.. poor Muslims.. my heart bleeds.</p>
<p>Must be horrible to have all those nasty words said about your religion. Much better to ahve bullets and bombs thrown at you.</p>
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<p>Islam just says to murder gays. How dare people criticise that?? Wont someone think of the poor people who follow such a hateful religion?</p>
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<p>If all else fails.. just blame Trump.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="592338" data-time="1467018314"><p>You need to take away 3 things.<br>
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The means<br>
The excuse<br>
The core of basic human nature<br>
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First of all I'd be taking away the means. Thats pretty easy. Its been done in most countries. As to how to take away the other 2, education and higher standards of living tend to work for religion. In particular seperating education from religion. The US is moving the opposite direction on that one.<br>
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As for changing basic human nature, same way you change any species. You selectively cull. You take the top 10% of the most agresive in your breeding population & kill or sterilise them. Repeat for 200 generations, congrats, you have changed a wild fox into a Jack Russell.<br>
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That ones pretty easy too really - tho' it will take 1000 years or so and involve some social adjustment re buying into it.</p></blockquote>1000 years? When you said pretty easy I foolishly thought that meant "in my lifetime"! -
<p><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cl-rEZVVYAQXd96.jpg" alt="Cl-rEZVVYAQXd96.jpg"></p>
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<p>From the NYC march over the Orlando massacre.</p>
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<p>Yeah blame the Republicans.. not the Islamic Democrat shooter. </p>
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<p>I would love to know what 'logic' these people were following in connecting the Republican party with a disturbed Muslim massacring Homosexuals that his religion wants dead..</p>
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<p>Oh yeah.... and Hilary Clinton marched with them as well... stay classy Hilary.</p>
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<p>I can only imagine the media reaction if Trump marched with a bunch of rednecks with a banner.. "Islam hate Kills!"</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/26/hillary-clinton-new-york-pride-parade-orlando'>https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/26/hillary-clinton-new-york-pride-parade-orlando</a></p> -
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-neo-nazi-stabbed-20160626-snap-htmlstory.html'>http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-neo-nazi-stabbed-20160626-snap-htmlstory.html</a></p>
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<p>Trumps (and your) parade was happening in LA</p>
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<p>And surely the opposite slogan would be "Democrat hate kills"?</p>
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<p>Unless you are not sure re the difference being political parties & religions... or the Dems & ISIS (you & Donald both there)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="592438" data-time="1467059909">
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<p>Oh yeah.. poor Muslims.. my heart bleeds.</p>
<p>Must be horrible to have all those nasty words said about your religion. Much better to ahve bullets and bombs thrown at you.</p>
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<p>Islam just says to murder gays. How dare people criticise that?? Wont someone think of the poor people who follow such a hateful religion?</p>
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<p>If all else fails.. just blame Trump.</p>
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<p>you are behaving in exactly the way that makes people feel sorry for the majority of the muslim population. because, you know, despite all of them having done nothing wrong themselves and living peaceful lives, they get lumped in with the psychos by people like you.</p>
<p>it's just bigotry, and it's disgusting.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="592860" data-time="1467202585">
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<p>you are behaving in exactly the way that makes people feel sorry for the majority of the muslim population. because, you know, despite all of them having done nothing wrong themselves and living peaceful lives, they get lumped in with the psychos by people like you.</p>
<p>it's just bigotry, and it's disgusting.</p>
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<p>yeah yeah... attacking a religion is bigotry.Because you know.. people follow it... cool story. It is the regressive lefts knee jerk response to absolutely any criticism of Islam to accuse people of bigotry and or Islamophobia. They make those terms just lose meaning.</p>
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<p>The religion Muslims follow is hateful, it preaches murder, it preaches discrimination, repression and slavery. I reserve my disdain for the ideology of Islam. I know there are lots of apologists out there who cannot handle the religion being criticised, I find that support disgusting, I find any ideology that preaches hate and murder and is considered beyond questioning and those that appease it disgusting.</p>
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<p>But of course feel free to fall, back on the straw man argument of "But not all Muslims kill and murder!" Just because nobody has said they do.. dont let that stop you mounting your high horse and screeching BIGOTRY!!!</p> -
<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="592879" data-time="1467233152"><p>
The religion Muslims follow is hateful, it preaches murder, it preaches discrimination, repression and slavery. I reserve my disdain for the ideology of Islam. I know there are lots of apologists out there who cannot handle the religion being criticised, I find that support disgusting, I find any ideology that preaches hate and murder and is considered beyond questioning and those that appease it disgusting.<br></p></blockquote>
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Utterly wrong. Those things are WRITTEN in the Quran and Hadith, but they are only PREACHED by those who choose to do so.<br><br>
Just like the many, many branches of Christianity follow the same book but choose to use the bits they like. Same as Judaism.<br><br>
When someone makes statements in line with forcing Muslims to eat a bacon sandwich while drawing a cartoon of Mohammed, they're no longer attacking the ideology, they're being a willfully ignorant fluffybunny. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="592885" data-time="1467235350">
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<p><br>
Utterly wrong. Those things are WRITTEN in the Quran and Hadith, but they are only PREACHED by those who choose to do so.<br><br>
Just like the many, many branches of Christianity follow the same book but choose to use the bits they like. Same as Judaism.<br><br>
When someone makes statements in line with forcing Muslims to eat a bacon sandwich while drawing a cartoon of Mohammed, they're no longer attacking the ideology, they're being a willfully ignorant fluffybunny.</p>
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<p>No they are illustrating the zealousness and stupidity of a religion.</p>
<p>Impressive dancing on the head of a pin, get back to me when you see a Muslim preaching that the Quran and Hadiths are wrong.</p>
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<p>Islam needs a reformation, but that wont happen until the ideology is open to criticism.. and sadly that wont be happening any time time soon as the stupid appeasing piston wristed gibbons in the west have way to much of a hang up about criticising it... </p> -
<p>It is definitely wilful ignorance on the part of the appeasers....</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="592879" data-time="1467233152">
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<p>yeah yeah... attacking a religion is bigotry.Because you know.. people follow it... cool story. It is the regressive lefts knee jerk response to absolutely any criticism of Islam to accuse people of bigotry and or Islamophobia. They make those terms just lose meaning.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The religion Muslims follow is hateful, it preaches murder, it preaches discrimination, repression and slavery. I reserve my disdain for the ideology of Islam. I know there are lots of apologists out there who cannot handle the religion being criticised, I find that support disgusting, I find any ideology that preaches hate and murder and is considered beyond questioning and those that appease it disgusting.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But of course feel free to fall, back on the straw man argument of "But not all Muslims kill and murder!" Just because nobody has said they do.. dont let that stop you mounting your high horse and screeching BIGOTRY!!!</p>
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<p>you cross the line between attacking the doctrine and the people more often than not, you frequently make blanket statements on muslims, and you think rules should be applied to all muslims because of the actions of a few.</p>
<p>that is pretty much dictionary definition bigotry. screech screech. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="592900" data-time="1467239349">
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<p>you cross the line between attacking the doctrine and the people more often than not, you frequently make blanket statements on muslims, and you think rules should be applied to all muslims because of the actions of a few.</p>
<p>that is pretty much dictionary definition bigotry. screech screech. </p>
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<p>Now you are just making stuff up to suit your narrative. I am very careful to attack the ideology.</p>
<p>It would seem you are equally careful to ignore what people say and just make stuff up to suit your desire to appease....</p>
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<p>All else fails.. just yell bigot.. ever the way of the regressive left.</p>
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Would you like to post .. lets say 10 blanket statements I have made about Muslims? According to your narrative I do it often, so it wont be hard. heck is 10 to difficult for you... lets start off with just a few then.</p>
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<p>Unless of course like your regressive left buddies you are just making shit up and yelling bigot to just shut down discussion?</p> -
<p>Stop hiding / deleting my fucking posts.</p>
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<p>It was done last time I slapped Baron silly for picking an argument when there wasn't one. Still not happy about that.</p>
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<p>Plenty of shit from Baron goes without censure here, so show a bit of fucking equality.</p> -
<p>nah, it's gone man</p>