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How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?

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allblacks
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How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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  • KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurphK Offline
    KiwiMurph
    wrote on last edited by
    #63

    Yeah reading the quotes by Steve Jackson seems like Kaino returning in time for Lions is very much the plan.

    I'd say that Blues Lions game is the marker Kaino is aiming towards. As has been said the Lions test series for Kaino must be a huge focus to cap off his career so i'd say he'll be doing everything in his power to be back and ready in time.

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  • mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4life
    replied to westcoastie on last edited by
    #64

    @westcoastie As i may have mentioned on the 'canes thread, I find Shields to be a very ordinary player.

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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    wrote on last edited by
    #65

    I don't think they will consider using two openside flankers. Many have tried that tactic and it has rarely worked - and then only in the short-term.

    Especially when the obvious plan for the Lions is to try to out-muscle us up front.

    I'm going to work on the assumption that JK will be fit, well-rested and ready to play - with Plan B. being Messam or Squire.

    taniwharugbyT Chester DrawsC 2 Replies Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #66

    @Chris-B. nah remember that time it worked and everyone got scared that we needed to change everything to combat it!

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • BovidaeB Offline
    BovidaeB Offline
    Bovidae
    replied to westcoastie on last edited by
    #67

    @westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?

    No, he debuted the following year.

    I think Squire is better as an impact sub. He was poor in Chicago when he started. I'm sure Kaino will be fine but Messam is an experienced replacement if required. Like @mariner4life, I don't see Shields as an international quality loose forward.

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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #68

    @taniwharugby I do remember that, now you mention it.

    The most infamous version I remember is Smith and Waugh at the 2003 RWC, but I think it's worked against us since, as well. Pocock and Hooper?

    taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by taniwharugby
    #69

    @Chris-B. yeah I think it was in the Sydney game prior to the return game at EP in 2015 where Aus put up the white flag and got smashed.

    @Bovidae lots of players reps took a hit that day, largely due to how ineffective our 2nd row was, which seemed to flow through and hinder everything

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  • Chester DrawsC Offline
    Chester DrawsC Offline
    Chester Draws
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #70

    @Chris-B. said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    I don't think they will consider using two openside flankers. Many have tried that tactic and it has rarely worked - and then only in the short-term.

    Especially when the obvious plan for the Lions is to try to out-muscle us up front.

    I think a combination of Cane and A. Savea is unlikely to be out-muscled.

    Cane's height is pretty much the only thing that stops him being a pure #6 anyway, since he's ordinary in the "fetcher" stakes by international standards. And we've seen that Ardie can make a decent fist of #8.

    Ritchie McCaw played successfully on the opposite side of the scrum from Matt Todd on many occasions for the Crusaders.

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Chester Draws on last edited by
    #71

    @Chester-Draws Yes, but none of your examples are test rugby.

    Just last year we thought we could field Kaino as a small lock against Ireland and it backfired badly.

    There's a reasonable chance of the Lions edging us up front even with Kaino playing. I reckon we will get significantly out-muscled if we try fielding Cane and Savea, but I don't think Hansen will consider it.

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  • BonesB Online
    BonesB Online
    Bones
    wrote on last edited by
    #72

    I'd prefer Todd to start over Savea if so. Savea is brilliant off the bench but his propensity to shirk defensive duties would have me very worried.

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  • kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelb
    wrote on last edited by
    #73

    I cant see them playing 2 7s against the Lions ,

    thats the type of thing you can get away with against the aussies , not this lot who present a more physical challenge

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  • CrucialC Offline
    CrucialC Offline
    Crucial
    wrote on last edited by
    #74

    You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
    Who is the closest we have to that?
    Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.

    kiwiinmelbK gollumG 2 Replies Last reply
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  • PaekakboyzP Offline
    PaekakboyzP Offline
    Paekakboyz
    wrote on last edited by
    #75

    Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!

    Chris B.C CrucialC 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to Paekakboyz on last edited by
    #76

    @Paekakboyz He's been going well enough. It's unlikely, but not completely beyond the realms of possibility. Probably about the same place as Taufua.

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  • kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelbK Offline
    kiwiinmelb
    replied to Crucial on last edited by
    #77

    @Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
    Who is the closest we have to that?
    Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.

    its funny you mentioned Barrett, I was thinking of him

    C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • CrucialC Offline
    CrucialC Offline
    Crucial
    replied to Paekakboyz on last edited by
    #78

    @Paekakboyz said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!

    It did cross my mind as well.

    Just did a quick compare of stats against those of Kaino's this year and no one comes close except Shields who beats him in nearly every area except that he has conceded more turnovers.

    Next best solely by stats is probably Messam.

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to KiwiMurph on last edited by
    #79

    @KiwiMurph said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    Kaino will undergo surgery this week (knee) and will be out of action for around six weeks.

    Where is the "unlike" button?

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #80

    @mariner4life said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    I like Squire off the bench in tests, but not sure a starting role fits his current skill set.

    I'm a massive fan of Messam, but not sure his form is of the same quality as a couple of years ago. Not sure Dixon provides the presence.

    I think all the main possibilities bring different skill sets, and would probably need a rejig of responsibility in the back row, as none are a like-for-like replacement. Of course, the coach probably feels completely different.

    Luatua?
    Fifita?

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  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to westcoastie on last edited by
    #81

    @westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?

    Anyways, replacements?
    Cane to 6, Todd or Savea to 7?
    Squire? Don't think Dixon or Messam are up to it.
    Brad Shields? (I thought he was an 8, but started at 6 vs Brumbies - could this be his time?)

    AB's really like their 6 smashing people in the tight, and also like Read being free to roam so they need that balance.

    To be honest, Kaino will get back, and fresh, and then belt Warburton, Faletau, O'Brien, Itoje, anything in red, and then retire. Actually, he might belt a few aussies just for shits & giggles and then retire.

    Surely Cane to 6 is never happening. We'll be left with a Pooper lineout.

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  • gollumG Offline
    gollumG Offline
    gollum
    replied to Crucial on last edited by
    #82

    @Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:

    Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.

    Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.

    So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.

    Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.

    Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.

    CrucialC BovidaeB westcoastieW 3 Replies Last reply
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How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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